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starting kids late in school to have an advantage in sports.


D-train

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This question and poll is very interesting and it  yet again proves why this board is so interesting and entertaining.The actual question of whether it is ethical is kind of misleading and I see we have many differing opinions already.I started school in Nevada at age 5 and graduated at 17 I have always wondered what that year would have done for my matuity both physical and mental.

I did not really consider the question that much when my own children started school as  both were born close to the first of the year.My wife and I have discussed the matter many times since then and agree we should have maybe waited on one child who was reaaly small for his age.

I think the real dicrepencies in maturity creep into the issue when one child starts early and another child is held back by his parents to mature more.These two individuals could be close to two years apart and that could be a real issue.

This has always been the case though and it will always be. I don't see a ethical question at all it just a parental choice that a parent can make as to their own child.

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Ethics come into play only when you answer the question "Why you held your child back?"  It also depends on a persons definition of  ethics.  Is the parent doing what is best for their child in helping them lead a successful life, or are tey being selfish and focusing on a sport?  That is for the parents to decide.

 

Holding students back in middle school however, especially if they have decent to good grades, will raise some red flags.  Waiting to start kindergarten is common.

 

 

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PM1981

 

Thank you for taking part in the educational process. You are obviously a teacher.  If you look at Yourself(not Held back vs your son(held back) in the LONG run what is really going to get us through life? As I said holding someone back often has good reasons, as yours did. You were operating from your own personal experience and trying to  create a better experience for your son and I applaud that. But lets stay focused on education That is my point. Your son is still using sports as a tool to get an education and I believe that is the intention of sports for most of us. I hope when I die they don't put "He was a  State Champ" in the obits. More like: He was a Great Contibutor and Educator.

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I didn't have a choice my boys were all born  after the cutoff dtaes  which makes them the older students. But I didn't do it specificly for sports  heck I didn't even think the youngest would play any and now he's a pretty darn good wrestler. *shrugs* I think they were better off starting late but ,like I said I didn't have a choice.

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i used the word ethical because i realize that starting your kid late is within the rules of the ihsaa.  there may have been a better word, because ethics do tend to be very subjective, but i couldn't think of one.

 

i wondered what most of you thought about this.  i originally heard a related topic a while back when my wife was whatching t.v. (dr. phil?)

 

there was a guy from texas that intentionally held his kid out of school an extra year in order to help his future high school football career.  we all know how football is in texas.  i was surprised to find my own opinion very conflicted on this issue.  

 

for the record, i did vote yes.

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Althought its not illegal to hold your athlete back in elementary school or eighth grade, I feel the 20 year old limit at the state finals is too high.  Every year there are freshmen who are 14 years old wrestling 18- 19 year old seniors.  What is a 19 year old student (going on 20) doing in high school anyway?  His goal should be to graduate from high school.  The limit should be lowered to 19 years old on the date of the state finals IMO.

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Althought its not illegal to hold your athlete back in elementary school or eighth grade,    The limit should be lowered to 19 years old on the date of the state finals IMO.

 

 

WOW THAT WOULD THROW A MONKEY WRENCH INTO THE PLANS OF SOME TOP RATED KIDS IN THE STATE?

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I completely agree with Matster, my son's team has at least 5 juniors wrestling that recently turned 16. Most will graduate when they just turn 18, one will still be 17 ! I think it is ridiculous that the IHSAA allows kids play sports that are almost 20. It sounds like they have other problems than worrying about playing sports. SOME 17 and 18 year olds are PHYSICALLY mature ALMOST all 19 and 20 year olds are physically mature.  That doesnt even go into counting the additional physical strength that a young man has instead of a boy.

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What D-Train is pointing out is really the unethical use of "loopholes" that the ihsaa needs to close up. They probably just do not have the resources to make the system better. I think the age limit is acceptable maturity,learning disabled and a host of other reasons. It is when a child with no disabilities or maturity problems is put in two different 8th grade classes to effectivly RED SHIRT the child for athletic "advantage". This is really another form of cheating. And we all know it is happening. This one is easy to close in my "opinion". You get four years to partiipate in High School sports after successfully completing one 8th Grade. SOUNDS TOO SIMPLE.

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If I had known that my kid was going to be one of the youngest in his class, I absolutely would have. I think he would have done much better academically. Are you guaranteed a better athlete? Not necessarily. I think that all boys with spring or summer birthdays should wait a year. Girls could probably start kindergarten when they are 3 because they a much more mature. ;D

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wow...So much to say, I could write pages and pages on this topic.  I will try to be brief and keep it in an outline format;

 

Was one of family of 3 boys;

1.) Oldest graduated at 17 (Late May bday), was under 6' tall and smart.  Excelled at grades, mediocre at sports but participated year round.  Definitely was at a "maturity" disadvantage.  By the end of frosh. yr. at college was 6'3" and 30 lbs. heavier

2.) Middle graduated at 19 (August bday), was same ht. at graduation as today.  Struggled academically, but excelled grade wise out of hard work and desire.

3.) Youngest graduated at 18 (Novemeber bday), about the same height and weight at graduation as he is today, but was definitely not "fully matured".  He was still taking some sort of "shape" when he graduated.  Excelled academically with little effort and physically blossomed within a year of graduation as his body started to develop.

 

Now am the father of 2 sons;

1.) Oldest is a September Birthday.  The District he started in required age 5 before August 1 to start kindergarten.  So he was 6 within a month of his first day of kindergarten.

2.) Younger son born late June.  By the time he was born, the District had moved the date to June 5th (part of adjustments made as they implemented full day kindergarten).  So he was actually 6 his first day of kindergarten

 

So both kids are "old" relative to most of their classmates in IN....THEN we move to CA and find out that here the req. is that they turn 5 on or before the end of the calender year that they start!  So a kid here with a December birthday spends half of his kindergaten year at 4!  So almost everyone here is 17 at graduation!  People here are obviouslly suspicious of our "motives" as both of my kids appear to be good athletes and much older then their classmates.  Truth is, we just followed the rules we were under.  But with the knowledge of my experiences as a kid, with me and my brothers, I can't imagine starting a kid at 4!!  And at the same time, people here can't imagine a kid not starting school until he was 6?

 

The folks here will SAY  "Well he/she is so smart" or "They are ready!", but my knee jerk reaction is to look at the parent's motives.  Often times it is from homes that have 2 parents working full time OR a single parent home.  It's tough not to judge, especially when people are looking at your kids as "dumb jocks" (despite them getting straight A's!), but I see a lot more of parents rushing their kids in to school as daycare versus holding them back for athletics.   That said, I know of a much greater percentage of my son's classmates who have repeated 8th grade for obvious maturity (mostly athletic) reasons.  They will go to a public school one year, then a private school for a 2nd year of 8th grade.  I had never personally witnessed this in IN and know of at least 6 of my sons classmates from last year that are doing just that now.

 

Now for the straight scoop... I was a 14 year old 5'2" 112lbs. high school freshmen who ended up a 6'3" 210lb. college freshmen.  My oldest son is a 15 year old 5'11" 171lb. freshmen.  I am not sure where he will end up size wise, but I know life for him as a freshmen is much easier than I had it!  If I had it all to do over, I would have requested to be held out as a 5 yr. old! ;D

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What D-Train is pointing out is really the unethical use of "loopholes" that the ihsaa needs to close up. They probably just do not have the resources to make the system better. I think the age limit is acceptable maturity,learning disabled and a host of other reasons. It is when a child with no disabilities or maturity problems is put in two different 8th grade classes to effectivly RED SHIRT the child for athletic "advantage". This is really another form of cheating. And we all know it is happening. This one is easy to close in my "opinion". You get four years to partiipate in High School sports after successfully completing one 8th Grade. SOUNDS TOO SIMPLE.

 

i don't have a problem with this.  it doesn't interfere with the parent of a kindergarten age kid, but deals with the "doubling up" of 8th grade. 

 

i honestly never heard of people doing that with their kids in 8th grade, but i could believe it. 

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Out of Kindergarten, no. Not for sports.  Whether the kid is ready for kindergarten mentally, yes.  I have a late April birthday so was always the youngest in my grade, but I matured physically early too.  One of my sons is a late August birthday and while we had the option to start him early, we waited and I think it has worked out for the best for him so far. 

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Having been the oldest person in my class (who wasn't held back) I can tell you it makes a difference in someways, but not so much where athletics are concerned.  I think it's more important from a mental aspect than the physical.

 

Of course in my case I was at 119 or 126 (back in the day) all 4 years.  So being 18 years old and facing a 15 year old at 119 is a HUGE help both physically and mentally.  There are always exceptions, but it comes down to how those years are spent in helping the individual learn the craft they are training for also.

 

 

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