Wt Change for 2010/11

[Y2CJ41]

Most schools around here give out letter jackets if you letter one time in a sport. 

[LpBrown90]

this topic may be the new class wrestling topic!!!   

I hope that never happens in Indiana. The only way you are going to make some happy(and more even) on this topic is if wrestlers are only allowed to wrestle against someone the same age and weight.  

[Y2CJ41]

Class wrestling is horrible for the sport and anyone who advocates it is a democrat who just wants to be given everything in life and never have to work for it.  If you are for class wrestling move to Canada and become a sissy Canadian for all I care.

[MattM]

Class wrestling is horrible for the sport and anyone who advocates it is a democrat who just wants to be given everything in life and never have to work for it.  If you are for class wrestling move to Canada and become a sissy Canadian for all I care.

Now now.  No need to bring Canada into this now Y2.

[LpBrown90]

Class wrestling is horrible for the sport and anyone who advocates it is a democrat who just wants to be given everything in life and never have to work for it.  If you are for class wrestling move to Canada and become a sissy Canadian for all I care.

AMEN I can agree 100% on that..

[MattM]

And this is why Y2 needs to get working on that Sarcasm button soon!!!

[Boot]

Maybe with the bump up of 103 we can help keep getting the younger kids experience with more frosh-soph tournaments. I've been to several of these and the kids like it, gets the younger kids good experience, and everyone is happy. Sound like a fair compromise?

[naco228]

I would like to see a more even distribution between 171 and 189.

[MattM]

Maybe with the bump up of 103 we can help keep getting the younger kids experience with more frosh-soph tournaments. I've been to several of these and the kids like it, gets the younger kids good experience, and everyone is happy. Sound like a fair compromise?

Heck I'd be happy with more JV oppertunities in general for the kids.  It's hard to keep some kids coming back year after year when they work their butts off and they only end up getting a handful of JV oppertunities a year.  But, getting into how to improve JV oppertunities is probably worthy of its own topic.

[MattM]

I would like to see a more even distribution between 171 and 189.

From a quick look option B probably helps out the most around that area.

[maolsen]

Personally, I like 103, because those smaller kids that are 90 some pounds have better chance to get some wins in and not get discouraged. Wrestling is a great sport because kids of all sizes can participate. If you move up the 103 weight class to 106, sure there would be more people in that weight class, but it takes out the smaller kids. You will see more people going down from 112, or w/e that weight class will be, making it worse on the smaller kids. Now bringing up the statistics about the juniors and seniors making it to state more then the freshmen and sophomores doesn't make sense to me, because a lot of these kids do wrestle most of their life's (the good ones). So skill levels of the freshmen might be the same, but those juniors and seniors are usually stronger. I think that is why most of state is comprised of juniors and seniors, because the freshmen and sophomores that are at the same ability level of these juniors and seniors, just aren't as strong, meaning they don't make it. I'm not saying that those upperclassmen don't have more experience, but I would think that the strength and athleticism they have gained through their high school career gives them more of an advantage, which is why the stats say upperclassmen are more likely to make it. 103 might have a lot of ffs but it also has a lot of great wrestling.

[Y2CJ41]

I personally find it hard to believe that a freshman is equal to a senior as far as technique goes.  From the kids I have coached and witnessed, they have all improved their technique a great deal from their freshman year to their senior year. 

[Boot]

I personally find it hard to believe that a freshman is equal to a senior as far as technique goes.  From the kids I have coached and witnessed, they have all improved their technique a great deal from their freshman year to their senior year. 

99% of freshmen can't compete with seniors in technique. I hope nobody is crazy enough to say any given freshman can hold their own with an average upperclassmen.

[Y2CJ41]

From the post above.

So skill levels of the freshmen might be the same, but those juniors and seniors are usually stronger. I think that is why most of state is comprised of juniors and seniors, because the freshmen and sophomores that are at the same ability level of these juniors and seniors, just aren't as strong, meaning they don't make it.

[Boot]

I hope nobody is crazy enough to say any given freshman can hold their own with an average upperclassmen.

I'm keeping my hopes alive.

[TripleB]

Y2 I beg to differ, class wrestling could be an excellent option to explore. I feel that this subject has not been discussed thoroughly enough on this board and other Indiana boards. Maybe discussion should be brought up. I have some pictures of Ohio kids and they look happy as a pickle with their state championship medals. 

[Y2CJ41]

Pardon me Mr. B, but I tend to disagree with your assertion of wrestling in a classy format. 

P.S. Please send a hello to Mrs. B.

[1oldwrestler]

I'm certainly not against reducing forfeits.  If going up to 106/107 will accomplish, great!  But let's not focus on how we need to limit varsity opportunities for underclassmen.  If the lower weights are dominated by underclassmen and there aren't as many ffts, how can that be bad?  I really don't think underclassmen getting varsity letters is the main or even a minor reason our sport has has trouble with numbers.  

[ccbig]

I personally find it hard to believe that a freshman is equal to a senior as far as technique goes.  From the kids I have coached and witnessed, they have all improved their technique a great deal from their freshman year to their senior year. 

99% of freshmen can't compete with seniors in technique. I hope nobody is crazy enough to say any given freshman can hold their own with an average upperclassmen.

99%? *laughs* any given freshman? 


Years of experience on the mat make the largest difference IMO not what year a wrestler is in H.S.

Underclassmen who have been wrestling since kindergarden are going to be leaps & bounds ahead in skills development then a 4 years of experience senior.

While I hear many grumbles about a underclassman earning a varsity letter I hear very few grumbles from those same people about the upperclassman who has little to no experience earning a letter. (Which often happens at the upper weights)

[1oldwrestler]

ccbig  - you are absolutely right.  I've seen guys who haven't wrestled since their freshman years, come out after a two year lay off from the sport, wrestle heavy weight and make semi state.  But this is more acceptable, apparently, because they are upper classmen.  My point with this weight class discussion is that it needs to focus on what makes the sport better,  not preventing weight classes that are dominated by underclassmen because "it's not fair that a kid get a varsity letter based soley on his size and not his athletic ability."  Same could be said of the big boys.  And everyone who doesn't like the lower weight classes is going to jump up and down and say that they think 285 should be changed too.  However, their passion for that change isn't nearly as great as it is for the change in the lower weights.

[nutsdad]

ccbig  - you are absolutely right.  I've seen guys who haven't wrestled since their freshman years, come out after a two year lay off from the sport, wrestle heavy weight and make semi state.  But this is more acceptable, apparently, because they are upper classmen.  My point with this weight class discussion is that it needs to focus on what makes the sport better,  not preventing weight classes that are dominated by underclassmen because "it's not fair that a kid get a varsity letter based soley on his size and not his athletic ability."  Same could be said of the big boys.  And everyone who doesn't like the lower weight classes is going to jump up and down and say that they think 285 should be changed too.  However, their passion for that change isn't nearly as great as it is for the change in the lower weights.

Well said!!!!

[maolsen]

My statement obviously did not apply to most freshmen, but in my experience I have seen plenty of freshmen with technique that matches that of a lot of upperclassmen, even the best of them, those four years in high school aren't that big of significance to those who have been wrestling all their life's.

[Y2CJ41]

My statement obviously did not apply to most freshmen, but in my experience I have seen plenty of freshmen with technique that matches that of a lot of upperclassmen, even the best of them, those four years in high school aren't that big of significance to those who have been wrestling all their life's.

Jason Tsirtsis has better technique than most wrestlers in the state.  He is the exception though, not the norm. 

Its really a sad state of affairs when people state that freshmen are better technically than seniors.  Every program I have been a part of the freshmen have the worst technique.  It sounds like we have some great middle school coaches that should be promoted to the high school if they can teach a kid everything he needs to know technically.

[Boot]

My statement obviously did not apply to most freshmen, but in my experience I have seen plenty of freshmen with technique that matches that of a lot of upperclassmen, even the best of them, those four years in high school aren't that big of significance to those who have been wrestling all their life's.

Jason Tsirtsis has better technique than most wrestlers in the state.  He is the exception though, not the norm. 

Its really a sad state of affairs when people state that freshmen are better technically than seniors.  Every program I have been a part of the freshmen have the worst technique.  It sounds like we have some great middle school coaches that should be promoted to the high school if they can teach a kid everything he needs to know technically.

I think people are focusing too much on the few technically superior freshmen they see placing well at state rather than the average freshman in the practice room. In some programs where the kids make little to no progress in high school the freshmen might be as good as seniors, but I doubt there are many if any programs like that in this state.

[1oldwrestler]

My statement obviously did not apply to most freshmen, but in my experience I have seen plenty of freshmen with technique that matches that of a lot of upperclassmen, even the best of them, those four years in high school aren't that big of significance to those who have been wrestling all their life's.

Jason Tsirtsis has better technique than most wrestlers in the state.  He is the exception though, not the norm. 

Its really a sad state of affairs when people state that freshmen are better technically than seniors.  Every program I have been a part of the freshmen have the worst technique.  It sounds like we have some great middle school coaches that should be promoted to the high school if they can teach a kid everything he needs to know technically.

Joe - I don't disagree that freshmen, comapared with seniors and juniors, have worse techinque, in general.  However, as I've said before, the passion to get rid of the lowest weight class because it's so easy to get a varsity letter based only on size is somewhat misguided.  The folks that support it (you, hungus, wildcat, etc)  believe that if we do get rid of a weight class dominated by underclassmen it will improve the sport dramiatically because then all the big boys will feel better and they'll stay out for all 4 years rather than quit.  You like to promote stats to support your arguments.  The only way this argument can be supported is if there are exit interviews done with every freshman or sophomore upper weight kid that asks him why he's quitting the sport.  I feel pretty confident numbers like this haven't been compiled nor these interviews done.  Therefore, you guys are guilty of what you accuse all others of doing and that's relying on your feelings or opinions to make an argumet.  Again, I can't disagree with getting rid of forfeits and if raising 103 to 106/107 will do that, bravo.  Just leave the discussion about fairness or unfairness of little guys getting a varsity letter out of the equation.  It's your opinion or feeling just like the guys on here who believe that there is a higher % of little guys that come in as freshmen that are better technique wise than the upperclassmen in a room.