Wt Change for 2010/11

[Central111]

is obama urging this change too?

[wildcatcountry97]

Maybe the heavyweights can "spread the wealth weight around" to all those 103'rs and we can all be happy

[GrecoCoach]

I'm not opposed to raising 103, so long as it's not too much.  The smaller guys need a place to compete, even the freshmen.  Keep in mind that the weight changes also apply to JV and Freshmen teams, so they would be left with no way to gain experience for when they become juniors and seniors.

I am opposed to lowering heavyweight.  Dropping it to 250 or below would keep football players away, and football coaches would discourage their guys from wrestling because they'd have to lose weight instead of bulking up.  Once a few football players stop wrestling, others will follow.

The 3 proposals did a great job of using extensive data to balance the number of wrestlers per weight class.  At first I was wary of eliminating a weight class between 125 and 145, but as the data suggests, it would be more balanced.  I really like the additional weight class between 171 and 189!

Remember when they changed the weights back in 1995?  It failed badly so they changed them back the next year (with the addition of 215).  One reason it failed was because the middle weights were spread too thin - 8 pounds between each class.  I prefer the proposal that keeps that difference down to 6 pounds.  In any case, if it doesn't work out, we can always make adjustments until it works.

[1oldwrestler]

I guess I just need someone to explain why it's bad to have a weight class or two that are dominated by underclassmen.  If it gets more kids involved in the sport, how is that bad?  Everyone wants to have a team dominated by seniors or juniors but that's what makes coaching fun.  Having a few challenges, like filling ALL the weight classes and motivating some of the younger guys to be competitve at the varsity level can be pretty satifying for the athlete and the coach.  There's been a lot of talk on this thread about how stats and numbers support this or that.  Frankly folks, we all know that sports aren't all stats.  In fact, sports aren't really about stats at all.  It's about competition and ALL the weights contribute to the sport that's highly entertaining.  Reduce the forfeits but don't get rid of weight classes simply because they are dominated by underclassmen.  Sorry Mr. Hungus (Spock), but those are my "feelings."

[KarlHungus]

I guess I just need someone to explain why it's bad to have a weight class or two that are dominated by underclassmen.  If it gets more kids involved in the sport, how is that bad?  Everyone wants to have a team dominated by seniors or juniors but that's what makes coaching fun.  Having a few challenges, like filling ALL the weight classes and motivating some of the younger guys to be competitve at the varsity level can be pretty satifying for the athlete and the coach.  There's been a lot of talk on this thread about how stats and numbers support this or that.  Frankly folks, we all know that sports aren't all stats.  In fact, sports aren't really about stats at all.  It's about competition and ALL the weights contribute to the sport that's highly entertaining.  Reduce the forfeits but don't get rid of weight classes simply because they are dominated by underclassmen.  Sorry Mr. Hungus (Spock), but those are my "feelings."

No one is stopping you from basing you judgement on the future of the sport on your feelings, you don't have to appologize.  I just think think there are better ways of making decisions.

[1oldwrestler]

Thank you for giving me permission, Mr. Spock.  However, oh all knowing and enlightened one who only bases his decisions on fact and scientific analysis, you believe that the failure or success of H.S. wrestling depends on setting up a weight class system that only favors upperclassmen?  How........illogical (I'm raising one vulcan eyebrow as I type this).

[Y2CJ41]

There is nothing wrong when elite and good underclassmen are in the line-up.  We have a unique sport where size doesn't always make you better, but its technique, conditioning, heart, etc.  

The problem I see is that it doesn't take a good wrestler to make varsity at the lower weights.  Many times it just takes being  the right size and showing up to the practice room.  If coaches have to lower themselves to getting kids out because of a varsity letter, then we aren't doing the sport any good.  My recruiting pitch to a 105lbs freshman shouldn't be, "you'll get a varsity letter," it should be, "you get to kick some butt, be a part of a great team, have a cool coach:), and have fun with some great teammates."  

The stats are good to show trends and mark red flags.  There were 65 freshmen in the state last year that qualified for semi-state.  That equals out to about 7%, which I could honestly say 7% of the freshmen in the state are good to elite wrestlers.  The problem lies in that 29 of those 65 state qualifiers were at 103lbs.  I really can't fathom that almost half of the best wrestlers in the state in the class of 2012 are at the same weight class.  That does not make sense to me.  

Your next question would be about the elite Olympic level wrestlers at lighter weights.  Well, where do we get those types of wrestlers at the higher weights?  They start out at middle and upper weights and take some lumps when they start out because the older and wiser upperclassmen are a little better.  That has not killed the sport at the upper weights because the freshmen have to wrestle juniors and seniors and take some losses from them.  

Raising the lowest weight to 106 or 107lbs will only help the sport by making more kid eligible for the weight class.  More kids means more competition and will also mean more older kids will be able to wrestle that weight.  Wrestling has endured two other weight changes of the lowest weights and survived.  The sport didn't die back in 1969 when they raised 95lbs to 98lbs.  Nothing drastic happened either in 1988 when they eliminated 98lbs for 103lbs either.  

[LpBrown90]

There is nothing wrong when elite and good underclassmen are in the line-up.  We have a unique sport where size doesn't always make you better, but its technique, conditioning, heart, etc.  

The problem I see is that it doesn't take a good wrestler to make varsity at the lower weights.  Many times it just takes being  the right size and showing up to the practice room.  If coaches have to lower themselves to getting kids out because of a varsity letter, then we aren't doing the sport any good.  My recruiting pitch to a 105lbs freshman shouldn't be, "you'll get a varsity letter," it should be, "you get to kick some butt, be a part of a great team, have a cool coach:), and have fun with some great teammates."  

The stats are good to show trends and mark red flags.  There were 65 freshmen in the state last year that qualified for semi-state.  That equals out to about 7%, which I could honestly say 7% of the freshmen in the state are good to elite wrestlers.  The problem lies in that 29 of those 65 state qualifiers were at 103lbs.  I really can't fathom that almost half of the best wrestlers in the state in the class of 2012 are at the same weight class.  That does not make sense to me.  

Your next question would be about the elite Olympic level wrestlers at lighter weights.  Well, where do we get those types of wrestlers at the higher weights?  They start out at middle and upper weights and take some lumps when they start out because the older and wiser upperclassmen are a little better.  That has not killed the sport at the upper weights because the freshmen have to wrestle juniors and seniors and take some losses from them.  

Raising the lowest weight to 106 or 107lbs will only help the sport by making more kid eligible for the weight class.  More kids means more competition and will also mean more older kids will be able to wrestle that weight.  Wrestling has endured two other weight changes of the lowest weights and survived.  The sport didn't die back in 1969 when they raised 95lbs to 98lbs.  Nothing drastic happened either in 1988 when they eliminated 98lbs for 103lbs either.  

I would have to say that the only thing I agree with you on is youre last paragraph. How were there 29 qualifieres at 103lbs at state when only 16 qualify? Even if you meant semi-state that is a great accomplishment for freshman in one class system state. I ACTUALLY KIND OF LIKE THE MOVE TO 106 but knocking the lighter weights again is absurd. I remember being able to kick the crap out heavier weights all through high school and wrestled 98lbs through 135.  I am sorry but Nobody told me when  I started in this sport when I was 5 and had to beat out a senior for varsity as a freshman(and wrestled every year around) that it didn't really mean anything because I was a lighter weight. If I would have known that I would have stuck with the other sports I was good in. You are making an easy move into a sore subject  and  I guess some of us are better of talking to a peice of PAPER.
  

[Y2CJ41]

There is nothing wrong when elite and good underclassmen are in the line-up.  We have a unique sport where size doesn't always make you better, but its technique, conditioning, heart, etc. 

The problem I see is that it doesn't take a good wrestler to make varsity at the lower weights.  Many times it just takes being  the right size and showing up to the practice room.  If coaches have to lower themselves to getting kids out because of a varsity letter, then we aren't doing the sport any good.  My recruiting pitch to a 105lbs freshman shouldn't be, "you'll get a varsity letter," it should be, "you get to kick some butt, be a part of a great team, have a cool coach:), and have fun with some great teammates." 

The stats are good to show trends and mark red flags.  There were 65 freshmen in the state last year that qualified for semi-state.  That equals out to about 7%, which I could honestly say 7% of the freshmen in the state are good to elite wrestlers.  The problem lies in that 29 of those 65 state qualifiers were at 103lbs.  I really can't fathom that almost half of the best wrestlers in the state in the class of 2012 are at the same weight class.  That does not make sense to me. 

Your next question would be about the elite Olympic level wrestlers at lighter weights.  Well, where do we get those types of wrestlers at the higher weights?  They start out at middle and upper weights and take some lumps when they start out because the older and wiser upperclassmen are a little better.  That has not killed the sport at the upper weights because the freshmen have to wrestle juniors and seniors and take some losses from them. 

Raising the lowest weight to 106 or 107lbs will only help the sport by making more kid eligible for the weight class.  More kids means more competition and will also mean more older kids will be able to wrestle that weight.  Wrestling has endured two other weight changes of the lowest weights and survived.  The sport didn't die back in 1969 when they raised 95lbs to 98lbs.  Nothing drastic happened either in 1988 when they eliminated 98lbs for 103lbs either. 

]I would have to say that the only thing I agree with you on is youre last paragraph. How were there 29 qualifieres at 103lbs at state when only 16 qualify? Even if you meant semi-state that is a great accomplishment for freshman in one class system state. I ACTUALLY KIND OF LIKE THE MOVE TO 106 but knocking the lighter weights again is absurd. I remember being able to kick the crap out heavier weights all through high school and wrestled 98lbs through 135.  I am sorry but Nobody told me when  I started in this sport when I was 5 and had to beat out a senior for varsity as a freshman(and wrestled every year around) that it didn't really mean anything because I was a lighter weight. If I would have known that I would have stuck with the other sports I was good in. You are making an easy move into a sore subject  and  I guess some of us are better of talking to a peice of PAPER.

I did state SEMI-STATE, reread the original unedited post.

If you want to start at the varsity level in most other sports as an underclassman you will have to compete against a junior or senior.  That is the reality of almost every other sport at the high school level. Wrestling is the ONLY sport that caters to underclassmen and we do so at an alarming rate.  We do so, so much that one weight class is almost exclusively underclassmen.   51 freshmen or sophomores qualified for semi-state at 103lbs last year, while only 13 juniors or seniors qualified.   The average is almost the exact reciprocal of that.  The freshmen that qualify for semi-state aren't the best wrestlers in all grades, they are the best wrestlers of the 9th and 10th graders with a few juniors and seniors sprinkled in.  The best freshmen at 125lbs are the best wrestlers of all grades at 125lbs.

If the FACTS that I post mean I am knocking these wrestlers then I guess we shouldn't list other FACTS when proposing changes we should just go off our gut feelings.  These are FACTS and not opinions.   

[Boot]

An advantage of a weight class for primarily underclassmen is that it gets them more mat time, gets and keeps more kids in the sport, and with more mat time and experience SHOULD come better wrestlers in the future. Is this always the case? Of course not, but if other young, small guys see they might have a shot they are more likely to come out and give it a try.

[AJ]

What data on the other side?  When data and logic go up against personal feelings, I tend to support data and logic.

Do you really believe that there is only 1 way to look at data?  Most arguments that use data start with a personal feeling, or hypothesis, then the data is presented in a way to justify what the researcher is wanting the data to say.

Do some people not want the cahnge for personal reasons, yes.  Does 103 have the highest number of forfeits, yes. Does that mean that we must eliminate 103, no.  That is flawed logic.  Could one give strong logical reasons for the change, yes, and I believe that some have given some strong logical reasons.  I am just saying that throwing data out there for the public does not simply answer a question.

Like I have said before, I dont see the big deal about the entire thing since it is such a small increase in weight.

[LpBrown90]

Facts are Facts, but the  real facts are in the wrestling room. You bring up the facts of  the underclassmen being catered to by the lighter weights but the lighter weights is where the real wrestling at. I have followed this sport since I left it in college  and coach up in Michigan . The facts I have seen all through high school and beyound is the upper weight classes  may be more dominated juniors and seniors but the talent and skill  level is not even really close. Just because you wrestle JV till you are a junior or senior means nothing. Skill neutralizes strength in almost any sport. My freinds and I
still go to the State tournament every year and always leave when they start getting to the heavier weights because it's basically two guys tying up until one of them goes down. Its sloppier until they go onto college and develop a little bit more to which most  probably will choose football.  The facts are in the talent not in youre stats. If you believe in all youre stats then you are just  blind.

[Y2CJ41]

An advantage of a weight class for primarily underclassmen is that it gets them more mat time, gets and keeps more kids in the sport, and with more mat time and experience SHOULD come better wrestlers in the future. Is this always the case? Of course not, but if other young, small guys see they might have a shot they are more likely to come out and give it a try.

We will always have more underclassmen as varsity athletes due to the weight classes.  I can accept that and do enjoy seeing some of the better young kids wrestling at state, especially at the middle to upper weights.  The one thing that I do not like is that we have one weight class that is almost exclusively for underclassmen.  We shouldn't have to do that to keep this sport going. 

[Y2CJ41]

Facts are Facts, but the  real facts are in the wrestling room. You bring up the facts of  the underclassmen being catered to by the lighter weights but the lighter weights is where the real wrestling at. I have followed this sport since I left it in college  and coach up in Michigan . The facts I have seen all through high school and beyound is the upper weight classes  may be more dominated juniors and seniors but the talent and skill  level is not even really close. Just because you wrestle JV till you are a junior or senior means nothing. Skill neutralizes strength in almost any sport. My freinds and I
still go to the State tournament every year and always leave when they start getting to the heavier weights because it's basically two guys tying up until one of them goes down. Its sloppier until they go onto college and develop a little bit more to which most  probably will choose football.  The facts are in the talent not in youre stats. If you believe in all youre stats then you are just  blind.

So the only weight classes that you find exciting are 103, 112 and some of 119?  At 125lbs+ the upperclassmen to underclasssmen ratio is 4 to 1. 

Since you say that no real wrestling happens in the upper weights, why are  you discrediting their accomplishments?  I, nor any of the other "haters," have never stated that there is not "real" wrestling going on at any weight.

[AJ]

The one thing that I do not like is that we have one weight class that is almost exclusively for underclassmen.  We shouldn't have to do that to keep this sport going. 

Do you have a problem with having some of the heavier weights being dominated by upperclassmen?  285 is pretty much exclusively for upperclassmen.  Very few freshmen and sophomores weigh close to that much. They may be heavies but they are not near the weight.

[Boot]

The one thing that I do not like is that we have one weight class that is almost exclusively for underclassmen.  We shouldn't have to do that to keep this sport going. 

Do you have a problem with having some of the heavier weights being dominated by upperclassmen?  285 is pretty much exclusively for upperclassmen.  Very few freshmen and sophomores weigh close to that much. They may be heavies but they are not near the weight.

I think we all know there are a LOT of underclassmen in the heavier weights, but good enough to be varisty at a bigger school and good enough to make it to state? Not usually. I've known a lot of bigger kids that come out freshman year, get tired of getting beat on and just quit. In my opinion 103 being dominated by underclassmen helps curve that and makes them better wrestlers when they get older and get to the middle weights. Just my opinion and feeling, who knows if there's data to support it.

[LpBrown90]

Facts are Facts, but the  real facts are in the wrestling room. You bring up the facts of  the underclassmen being catered to by the lighter weights but the lighter weights is where the real wrestling at. I have followed this sport since I left it in college  and coach up in Michigan . The facts I have seen all through high school and beyound is the upper weight classes  may be more dominated juniors and seniors but the talent and skill  level is not even really close. Just because you wrestle JV till you are a junior or senior means nothing. Skill neutralizes strength in almost any sport. My freinds and I
still go to the State tournament every year and always leave when they start getting to the heavier weights because it's basically two guys tying up until one of them goes down. Its sloppier until they go onto college and develop a little bit more to which most  probably will choose football.  The facts are in the talent not in youre stats. If you believe in all youre stats then you are just  blind.

So the only weight classes that you find exciting are 103, 112 and some of 119?  At 125lbs+ the upperclassmen to underclasssmen ratio is 4 to 1.  

Since you say that no real wrestling happens in the upper weights, why are  you discrediting their accomplishments?  I, nor any of the other "haters," have never stated that there is not "real" wrestling going on at any weight.

No, I  enjoy the heaviers a little bit better now up to 171 but mostly only up to 160. I think alot of the heavier weights classes are undeveloped  on their  skill.(that is what I watch) . I practice alot with the heavier weights now because I weigh close to 170lbs.  And yes there was alot of bashing on the 103lbs.  State Champion credentials and Freshman coming that probably chose the sport by size. All I'm saying is I like the move to 106 based on forfeits alone. The truth is not always in the facts but it  is in the ROOM AND ON THE MAT..

[Y2CJ41]

The one thing that I do not like is that we have one weight class that is almost exclusively for underclassmen.  We shouldn't have to do that to keep this sport going.  

Do you have a problem with having some of the heavier weights being dominated by upperclassmen?  285 is pretty much exclusively for upperclassmen.  Very few freshmen and sophomores weigh close to that much. They may be heavies but they are not near the weight.

I think we all know there are a LOT of underclassmen in the heavier weights, but good enough to be varisty at a bigger school and good enough to make it to state? Not usually. I've known a lot of bigger kids that come out freshman year, get tired of getting beat on and just quit. In my opinion 103 being dominated by underclassmen helps curve that and makes them better wrestlers when they get older and get to the middle weights. Just my opinion and feeling, who knows if there's data to support it.

I agree with what you are saying.  I see exactly what you are describing all the time.

This is where it gets hairy.  Those bigger kids as freshmen come in and are JV, while their counterparts at the lighter weights are varsity.  They both could very well be equal in ability, yet one does not have the same level of competition for a varsity spot or even in varsity matches.  To me that deters the bigger kids from sticking it out.  These bigger kids aren't world beaters, but they are solid enough wrestlers that will contribute as a junior and senior.

When I was a freshman and a varsity wrestler it was cool to walk around with my letter jacket on.  It was the coolest thing in the world, but I earned that letter because I was blessed with being small, not because of my athletic ability.  There were numerous kids in the school that gave me a hard time because of it.  There were two athletes in my class that earned varsity letters as freshmen.  It was me and another kid that was a gifted runner and lettered in cross country.  Comparing us two as far as athletic ability was laughable.  

I'm not saying it is like this at every school, but this is becoming more and more the norm with the new weight regulations and other factors(kids starting school later, etc).  We should not be a sport that hands out awards based on size instead of athletic ability.  

[1oldwrestler]

Joe - how does that hurt the sport?  Because some big kid has to wrestle jv for a year or two while his smaller friend gets a varsity letter all four years in wrestling?  If that's what pushes the kid away from the sport, then he doesn't have what it takes to be a wrestler in the first place.  I wouldn't want that kid on my club if he doesn't have any more guts than that.  I hope you told the kids that were razzing you to come up to the wrestling room for a practice or two.  If they actually did that I'm sure they would've sung a different tune.  Give me 14 guys with heart and guts over 14 "athletes" any day.  "Athletes" usually are defined by their accomplishments in team sports and can blame the other 10 or 8 guys when something goes bad.  Plus, they've had their butts kissed since they were in 4th grade little league.  Everyone has told them what a special "athlete" they are and doors get opened for them.  The mat is a very lonely place.  No excuses, no one to blame but themselves.   Daddy can't grease the skids with the coaches on a wrestling (tho I've seen some try).  Sometimes that freshman 95 pound 103 pounder is the best example of what is great about our sport.  Making it more difficult for that kid to get on the mat isn't good for the sport, IMO.

[KarlHungus]

What data on the other side?  When data and logic go up against personal feelings, I tend to support data and logic.

Do you really believe that there is only 1 way to look at data?  Most arguments that use data start with a personal feeling, or hypothesis, then the data is presented in a way to justify what the researcher is wanting the data to say.

Do some people not want the cahnge for personal reasons, yes.  Does 103 have the highest number of forfeits, yes. Does that mean that we must eliminate 103, no.  That is flawed logic.  Could one give strong logical reasons for the change, yes, and I believe that some have given some strong logical reasons.  I am just saying that throwing data out there for the public does not simply answer a question.

Like I have said before, I dont see the big deal about the entire thing since it is such a small increase in weight.

Of course there is more than 1 way to look at it.  I just haven't seen any data from those that say we don't need a change.  A hypothesis is different than a personal feeling.   I never said "throwing out data for the public".  But decisions based on data hold more weight than personal feelings.  Thats all ive ever said.

[AJ]

this topic may be the new class wrestling topic!!!   

[Y2CJ41]

Joe - how does that hurt the sport?  Because some big kid has to wrestle jv for a year or two while his smaller friend gets a varsity letter all four years in wrestling?  If that's what pushes the kid away from the sport, then he doesn't have what it takes to be a wrestler in the first place.  I wouldn't want that kid on my club if he doesn't have any more guts than that.  I hope you told the kids that were razzing you to come up to the wrestling room for a practice or two.  If they actually did that I'm sure they would've sung a different tune.  Give me 14 guys with heart and guts over 14 "athletes" any day.  "Athletes" usually are defined by their accomplishments in team sports and can blame the other 10 or 8 guys when something goes bad.  Plus, they've had their butts kissed since they were in 4th grade little league.  Everyone has told them what a special "athlete" they are and doors get opened for them.  The mat is a very lonely place.  No excuses, no one to blame but themselves.   Daddy can't grease the skids with the coaches on a wrestling (tho I've seen some try).  Sometimes that freshman 95 pound 103 pounder is the best example of what is great about our sport.  Making it more difficult for that kid to get on the mat isn't good for the sport, IMO.

I love the sport because it does give opportunities to athletes of all sizes.  Don't get me wrong on that, please.  I got my start in this sport because I was small and by no means athletic.  

Basically what I am trying to convey is that there are kids earning letters because of size and not being a good athlete in our sport.  In my experience, while it was cool and fun to have a letter jacket as a freshman, I know my friends that were of higher athletic ability were jealous.  They were jealous because I got a varsity letter because of my size.  I didn't even have to win a real match to get it either!  Now that I look back on it 15 years later I see that its not good for the sport for that to happen.  Wrestling coaches shouldn't be out in the hallways handing out varsity letters to little kids.  I don't want to sit in the hallway with a scale having kids walk up and if they weigh a certain amount pretty much hand them a varsity letter.  I know its an extreme example, but that is pretty much what happened in my case and I know its happening more these days with the weight regulations limiting what kids can wrestle 103lbs even more.

As far as those bigger kids that quit, we need them out.  They aren't world beaters, but when they become varsity as a junior or senior they will win 20-25 matches and help out a lot more than throwing a younger kid in that spot.  These are kids where wrestling isn't their #1 sport, but as a coach I need kids like that out to fill the line-up with solid kids.  If I tried to only fill the team with wrestling only wrestlers I would only have a handful of kids out for the sport.  By making it a little tougher for a 105lbs freshman to be varsity we help out the sport as a whole.  We keep kids in the sport that aren't wrestling #1, but very well could be someone that in the future becomes an assistant coach or biddy coach or ref or some other way of staying involved.  The smaller kids also are helped by not as many being thrown to the wolves their first year and some get to wrestle JV where they really belong(such as myself as a freshman).  This makes the product we give to the fans better and more appealing.

Will going to either proposal B or C make a drastic difference?  Probably not at the higher levels, but at the lowest levels it will make a difference.  It will get more kids eligible for varsity spots at the lower weights and with more kids will come older kids and higher quality kids also.  

These proposals are based on data compiled from the past two years.  This is not based on hating of certain weights, but making this sport better.  I wasn't around the sport when they did the changes in 1969 or 1988, but I assume the powers that be felt that there were good reasons to increase the weights.  

[MattM]

this topic may be the new class wrestling topic!!!   

Thanks for bringing that one up AJ. 

[LpBrown90]

The one thing that I do not like is that we have one weight class that is almost exclusively for underclassmen.  We shouldn't have to do that to keep this sport going.  

Do you have a problem with having some of the heavier weights being dominated by upperclassmen?  285 is pretty much exclusively for upperclassmen.  Very few freshmen and sophomores weigh close to that much. They may be heavies but they are not near the weight.

I think we all know there are a LOT of underclassmen in the heavier weights, but good enough to be varisty at a bigger school and good enough to make it to state? Not usually. I've known a lot of bigger kids that come out freshman year, get tired of getting beat on and just quit. In my opinion 103 being dominated by underclassmen helps curve that and makes them better wrestlers when they get older and get to the middle weights. Just my opinion and feeling, who knows if there's data to support it.

I agree with what you are saying.  I see exactly what you are describing all the time.

This is where it gets hairy.  Those bigger kids as freshmen come in and are JV, while their counterparts at the lighter weights are varsity.  They both could very well be equal in ability, yet one does not have the same level of competition for a varsity spot or even in varsity matches.  To me that deters the bigger kids from sticking it out.  These bigger kids aren't world beaters, but they are solid enough wrestlers that will contribute as a junior and senior.

When I was a freshman and a varsity wrestler it was cool to walk around with my letter jacket on.  It was the coolest thing in the world, but I earned that letter because I was blessed with being small, not because of my athletic ability.  There were numerous kids in the school that gave me a hard time because of it.  There were two athletes in my class that earned varsity letters as freshmen.  It was me and another kid that was a gifted runner and lettered in cross country.  Comparing us two as far as athletic ability was laughable.  

I'm not saying it is like this at every school, but this is becoming more and more the norm with the new weight regulations and other factors(kids starting school later, etc).  We should not be a sport that hands out awards based on size instead of athletic ability.  

I am now starting to get a little bit of where you are coming from. I think it is too bad that people look or looked at it that way. Wrestling is the fairest sport that there is possible based on weight classes alone. I never had to deal with that and I think that someone accomplishents speaks for themselves. That's the major reason alot of kids choose this sport that are not tall enough or big enough for basketball or football(lets be honest) . I understand now that you are only trying to be fair and it might be fairer with the weight change but I see it being mostly the same with less forfeits.

[Boot]

The one thing that I do not like is that we have one weight class that is almost exclusively for underclassmen.  We shouldn't have to do that to keep this sport going. 

Do you have a problem with having some of the heavier weights being dominated by upperclassmen?  285 is pretty much exclusively for upperclassmen.  Very few freshmen and sophomores weigh close to that much. They may be heavies but they are not near the weight.

I think we all know there are a LOT of underclassmen in the heavier weights, but good enough to be varisty at a bigger school and good enough to make it to state? Not usually. I've known a lot of bigger kids that come out freshman year, get tired of getting beat on and just quit. In my opinion 103 being dominated by underclassmen helps curve that and makes them better wrestlers when they get older and get to the middle weights. Just my opinion and feeling, who knows if there's data to support it.

I agree with what you are saying.  I see exactly what you are describing all the time.

This is where it gets hairy.  Those bigger kids as freshmen come in and are JV, while their counterparts at the lighter weights are varsity.  They both could very well be equal in ability, yet one does not have the same level of competition for a varsity spot or even in varsity matches.  To me that deters the bigger kids from sticking it out.  These bigger kids aren't world beaters, but they are solid enough wrestlers that will contribute as a junior and senior.

When I was a freshman and a varsity wrestler it was cool to walk around with my letter jacket on.  It was the coolest thing in the world, but I earned that letter because I was blessed with being small, not because of my athletic ability.  There were numerous kids in the school that gave me a hard time because of it.  There were two athletes in my class that earned varsity letters as freshmen.  It was me and another kid that was a gifted runner and lettered in cross country.  Comparing us two as far as athletic ability was laughable. 

I'm not saying it is like this at every school, but this is becoming more and more the norm with the new weight regulations and other factors(kids starting school later, etc).  We should not be a sport that hands out awards based on size instead of athletic ability. 

I agree 100%. When you come from small to medium schools, as we both do, you see it even more. I see what you say about not wanting to throw the younger kids to the wolves, but I was that freshman 103 varsity in high school and I loved wrestling and beating the upper classmen. Sure, it was a lot harder wrestling the upper classmen, but you learn from those matches and it was a good feeling.

There are some solid wrestlers I know who were barely at the lower weight limits. I remember the story of a Maldonado (I think it was) who had to have his brothers help get enough water in him to get up to weight. These are the exceptions, and I am in no way suggesting we keep the lowest weight at 103 for these few exceptions, but there has to be that lower weight so these kids don't have to just sit out and wait until they're older and bigger to wrestle, that encourages parents to hold their kids out a year for kindergarden.

What schools are giving freshmen letter jackets by the way? We had to have 3 letters in the same sport or 2 in 2 different sports. I'm not sure that's a good argument against lower classes.