Author Topic: IHSAA Class Basketball Discussions- What a Joke (Read 3529 times)

buscowrestling · « **on:** March 30, 2012, 08:20:34 AM »

http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/sports/IHSAA-Annouces-Series-of-Meetings-to-Discuss-Class-Basketball-144929135.html

It amazes me that only 10% of administrators surveyed say that they want single class basketball, and this is cause enough for the IHSAA to travel around the state discussing and taking straw poles on the issue. When 75% of wrestling coaches are surveyed and say the best way to crown a team champ is a classed team dual tournament , they do exactally the opposite of what we say is right and get rid of our dual tournament in its entirety.

This article also talks about how they IHSAA is looking to hear what fans thoughts are on the issue, while at the same time they could care less what the wrestling coaches in Indiana have to say about our sport.

I used to respect the IHSAA, now I see it as a joke in many ways.

julio · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2012, 08:43:46 AM »

It's all about the money. Let's face it basketball makes more money than wrestling and in Indiana basketball is king.

Ram Nation · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2012, 09:06:35 AM »

I was sure to leave "my 2 cents", as the website calls it, about how i feel on the issue. I hope that others will as well, in a proffesional manner of course.

Wasnt there an email posted from someone not all that long ago from Mr. Cox stating that he had the interest of fairness for all IHSAA sports when making his decision about 1 additional weigh in? Yet, this article is released and he will be traveling the state to discuss the thoughts of others about basketball? I do not remember him and his cohorts coming to southern Indiana for a town hall discussion to not just change the team dual tournament, but to cancel it completely. I do not see the fairness between sports in these instances. We have an association willing to take the reigns on this tournament, have dedicated numerous hours, and provided a clear outline and plan, yet the IHSAA refuses to deter from its decision. They really are a joke and an embarrassment. Good luck to all the coaches in the IHSWCA and the state, and i support your decisions regardless of the opinions of the IHSAA.

Y2CJ41 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2012, 09:33:06 AM »

Maybe someday we will stop the "we vs. them" attitude with the IHSAA. When that happens we can probably work WITH them to get improvements within the state tournament series and in wrestling in general. Until then we will continue with the constant struggles we currently have.

buscowrestling · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2012, 09:52:43 AM »

Quote from: Y2CJ41 on March 30, 2012, 09:33:06 AM

Maybe someday we will stop the "we vs. them" attitude with the IHSAA. When that happens we can probably work WITH them to get improvements within the state tournament series and in wrestling in general. Until then we will continue with the constant struggles we currently have.

Just curious as to how you feel that we could go about changing our attitudes toward the IHSAA when they really have done very little in the way of supporting wrestling over the past few years. They took away team state, they took away the weigh-in for the IHSWCA team state, we have no wrestle backs, and they really seem to care very little about what we have to say in general. WIth that being the situation do you feel the wrestling community should just be o.k. with the changes that take place regaurdless of how we feel about them, on the basis that it is what the IHSAA wants?

If we look at wrestling I really dont even know what we have to fight for beyond team state, and wrestle backs. Other than that what is there that a majority of the coaches want? So given that we currently have neither of these things due to the fact that the IHSAA doesnt want us to, and it doesnt seem thathey plan to change thier mind on any of the issues I dont see how an "us against them" attitude is not some what warrented. In all of my workings with the IHSWCA the elected officials have seemed to work with the IHSAA in an extremely coorperative manner, and yet we currently have little to show for it. I dont see how you expect the wrestling community not to have a bit of an us against them attitude when they treat the two sports completly differently.

Y2CJ41 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2012, 10:35:04 AM »

How far as the "we vs. them" attitude gotten us? It surely didn't help in keeping team state, did it? It surely hasn't helped us get wrestle-backs, has it? What is that saying... when you are doing the same thing over and over and expect different results is the definition of an idiot.

How do we change our attitude, we simply listen to what the IHSAA is saying. I can't remember how many times Barry Humble or Cale Hoover said that the IHSAA doesn't like the team series and that they specifically don't like that some schools send their JV squads to the meets. Did we do anything about it? Nope, just let them take it away after numerous warnings. This winter the football coaches were warned about too much off-season/summer activity by the IHSAA. What did the IFCA do you ask? Well they had regional discussions about it and stepped to the plate to tell the coaches to curb off-season/summer activity before the IHSAA puts in some sort of regulation on it. What a BRILLIANT idea!

Another great way to get into the good graces of the IHSAA is to stop conniving ways to get around IHSAA rules. How do you like it when one of your students/athletes is always trying to get around the rules? I am sure you don't treat them the same way as the students who follow the rules and don't cause trouble.

wildcatcountry97 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2012, 10:38:04 AM »

Y2 - that's the definition of insanity, not an idiot.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

idiot - A foolish or stupid person.

yogihof · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2012, 10:42:19 AM »

I think political pressure from the State Legislature has led to the Basketball Town Meetings.

Y2CJ41 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2012, 10:46:50 AM »

Quote from: wildcatcountry97 on March 30, 2012, 10:38:04 AM

Y2 - that's the definition of insanity, not an idiot.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

idiot - A foolish or stupid person.

Ahhh my bad....so the IHSWCA is just insane not an idiot, whew!

Ram Nation · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:13:57 AM »

I personnaly applaud the "we vs them" method. It shows that we have conviction and standards we would like to see met. As a young kid wrestling, martial arts, and the military taught me to never back down no matter the oppopnent. They may be bigger, stronger and more athletic but you may be surprised where heart and desire can get you. Stand for what you believe in and fight for that cause. Now i'm not saying i am going to the dorrsteps of the IHSAA and puffing up my chest, but i personally refuse to concede to them when they have proven time and time again they could really care less about the athletics and only on the money. all of us affiliated with this sport do so mainly for the love of it, not the notariety. This sport has always been about the participants, not the bank roll.

Ram Nation · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:27:26 AM »

I want to clarify before any assumptions are made. when i say "we" i mean the wrestling community. everything i state is simply IMO. I am in no way affilliated with the IHSWCA, or any other organization, and would never attempt to speak for them. Just wanted to clarify after re-reading my post. I am merely speaking as a past wrestler and a fan in general.

AlaskanMountie · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:34:39 AM »

Y2,

So if the IHSWCA adopted your philosophy 5-10 years ago, you believe that we would still have Team State and wrestle-backs @ State would have been implemented? I've read enough of your posts to know you're not that naive.

As for your analogy to the IFCA, you're comparing apples to oranges. Football and basketball will always be given special treatment and that is obvious with this senseless class basketball discussion. For some reason, or many, it seems you have it out for the IHSWCA which is your prerogative. I just don't see how they are the main cause to the lack of progress in the sport of wrestling in Indiana.

buscowrestling · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:38:14 AM »

Quote from: Y2CJ41 on March 30, 2012, 10:46:50 AM

Ahhh my bad....so the IHSWCA is just insane not an idiot, whew!

What you are saying is completely off base. In every dealing that I have had with the coaches association they (the elected IHSWCA officials) have taken the complete opposite approach to what you are claiming. They have never went into the meetings with the IHSAA with an attitude of us vs. them. Since I have been a member all of the leadership generally has went into the meetings with a very cooperative attitude. They may come out of the meeting with a bit of a different feeling, but I have never seen Trent, Danny, or Cale go into any meeting with the expectation that it was the IHSWCA vs the IHSAA. So imo it is the could be the attitude of hoping that the IHSAA will work with us that has gotten us nowhere, which is exactly the opposite of your claims.
Now this is not to say that certain members of the IHSWCA, myself included, do not have an us vs them attitude at times, but how is it the IHSWCA’s fault that certain members of its organization feel a certain way? How is the IHSWCA supposed to regulate the feelings and the actions of its member coaches? Are they supposed to send out some baseless letter slapping the coach on the wrist? Would that make the organization more ethical? What about when you called a kid a “turd” on this site? Should you have been given a warning from the IHSWCA? The coaches are grown men, who need to decide on their own what is wrong from right. It is not the IHSWCA fault when coaches do stupid things any more than it is my fault if one of my wrestlers does something stupid; it is a reflection on the individual not the group.
Would you disagree that the IHSAA has given wrestling the short end of the stick on a lot of issues in recent years? Wouldn’t it be insanity if we kept saying maybe things will change next year? How are you not supposed to have the "us vs them" attitude to an extent when they have taken away some very important asspects of our sport, and added nothing?

Ram Nation · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:41:09 AM »

How about this absurd idea. Lets have the varsity basketball teams simply place all their varsity players in a State Tournament series where they play one on one. The winners move on in their brackets. In the state finals whatever school accumulates the most points overall will be declared the state champion. This way we can have individual basketball state champions along with a state champion. If this is good enough for one sport why not the other?

buscowrestling · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2012, 11:53:41 AM »

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20120330/NEWS07/303309960/1002/LOCAL

Here's another article on it, if you read it Mitch Daniels says he was a wrestler, who knew?

Y2CJ41 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:02:26 PM »

Quote from: buscowrestling on March 30, 2012, 11:38:14 AM

What you are saying is completely off base. In every dealing that I have had with the coaches association they (the elected IHSWCA officials) have taken the complete opposite approach to what you are claiming. They have never went into the meetings with the IHSAA with an attitude of us vs. them. Since I have been a member all of the leadership generally has went into the meetings with a very cooperative attitude. They may come out of the meeting with a bit of a different feeling, but I have never seen Trent, Danny, or Cale go into any meeting with the expectation that it was the IHSWCA vs the IHSAA. So imo it is the could be the attitude of hoping that the IHSAA will work with us that has gotten us nowhere, which is exactly the opposite of your claims.
Now this is not to say that certain members of the IHSWCA, myself included, do not have an us vs them attitude at times, but how is it the IHSWCA’s fault that certain members of its organization feel a certain way? How is the IHSWCA supposed to regulate the feelings and the actions of its member coaches? Are they supposed to send out some baseless letter slapping the coach on the wrist? Would that make the organization more ethical? What about when you called a kid a “turd” on this site? Should you have been given a warning from the IHSWCA? The coaches are grown men, who need to decide on their own what is wrong from right. It is not the IHSWCA fault when coaches do stupid things any more than it is my fault if one of my wrestlers does something stupid; it is a reflection on the individual not the group.
Would you disagree that the IHSAA has given wrestling the short end of the stick on a lot of issues in recent years? Wouldn’t it be insanity if we kept saying maybe things will change next year? How are you not supposed to have the "us vs them" attitude to an extent when they have taken away some very important asspects of our sport, and added nothing?

Oh how you have forgotten how the soccer coaches got classed soccer implemented a few years ago. What is your explanation for that? They by far are not a major sport, but their coaches association worked WITH the IHSAA and got their proposal implemented.

buscowrestling · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:10:46 PM »

Im simply stating that the IHSWCA has attempted to work with the IHSAA, and for what ever reason it has not worked. I cant explain it, but they dont seem interested in working with us on many issues. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the IHSAA sees us as just an individual sport, and we see ourselves as both a team an individual sport. I also see the fact that the IHSAA doesnt want to change things for the other individual sports that they would for us as being something that hurts us greatly. Soccer was a team sport that wanted to be classed like all other team sports, so I would imagine it did not take much more then their association saying "we want to be classed" to get it done.

Y2CJ41 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:23:56 PM »

Quote from: buscowrestling on March 30, 2012, 12:10:46 PM

Im simply stating that the IHSWCA has attempted to work with the IHSAA, and for what ever reason it has not worked. I cant explain it, but they dont seem interested in working with us on many issues. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the IHSAA sees us as just an individual sport, and we see ourselves as both a team an individual sport. I also see the fact that the IHSAA doesnt want to change things for the other individual sports that they would for us as being something that hurts us greatly. Soccer was a team sport that wanted to be classed like all other team sports, so I would imagine it did not take much more then their association saying "we want to be classed" to get it done.

Seriously, they just had to ask for it for it to get done? Why wasn't it done in 1997 when all other TEAM sports went classed? Why were most other proposals by the soccer coaches denied over the past 10 years?

MattM · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:42:06 PM »

Quote from: Y2CJ41 on March 30, 2012, 12:23:56 PM

Seriously, they just had to ask for it for it to get done? Why wasn't it done in 1997 when all other TEAM sports went classed? Why were most other proposals by the soccer coaches denied over the past 10 years?

Since soccer only started in 1994 I'm guessing they may not of had a large and established enough group of school participants to make it classed in 1997. I do recall reading, when they announced classing soccer, that someone at the IHSAA mentioned the growth of the sport over the years has created the oppertunity to move to a two class system. I would assume if the school participation keeps growing and the development level improve they will eventually want to add more.

RULE 2 â€“ CLASSIFICATION OF SCHOOLS
2-1
Schools may be classified in team sports up to a maximum of four classes, except football which shall have five classes, according to the following criteria:
a. If 50 percent of the member schools sponsored a team and entered the IHSAA tournament in the previous year, that sport may have two classes.
b. If 75 percent of the member schools sponsored a team and entered the IHSAA tournament in the previous year, that sport may have three classes.
c. If 95 percent of the member schools sponsored a team and entered the IHSAA tournament in the previous year, that sport may have four classes.

Coach Willmann · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2012, 01:06:54 PM »

Soccer could of had a possible Lawsuit against the IHSAA if they did not class their sport. They would have been the only sport classified as a team sport that didn't have a class team tournament.

Again, apples and oranges.

KarlHungus · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2012, 05:02:03 PM »

Quote from: Coach Willmann on March 30, 2012, 01:06:54 PM

Soccer could of had a possible Lawsuit against the IHSAA if they did not class their sport. They would have been the only sport classified as a team sport that didn't have a class team tournament.

Again, apples and oranges.

Straw man argument unless you have some evidence of soccer programs threatening litigation. What they classify as individual sport really has no bearing as they give a team trophy. The larger point is that other coaches associations have seemed able to work with the IHSAA to effect positive changes for their sport whereas wrestling seems to be the only sport where it is going in the opposite direction. Why is this the case?

PTK-time · « **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2012, 10:36:10 AM »

Does anyone know what the attendance figures were for Basketball State vs. Wrestling State? By watching on TV, the stands looked pretty bare for Basketball State. Maybe the IHSAA is starting to take notice or getting worried that basketball is losing its appeal while wrestling continues to grow.

TheNextDynasty · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2012, 09:49:40 PM »

Quote from: PTK-time on March 31, 2012, 10:36:10 AM

Does anyone know what the attendance figures were for Basketball State vs. Wrestling State? By watching on TV, the stands looked pretty bare for Basketball State. Maybe the IHSAA is starting to take notice or getting worried that basketball is losing its appeal while wrestling continues to grow.

I just read an article that said this was the lowest attendence for the state basketball finals ever with 22,820

awood1 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2012, 10:27:51 PM »

Quote from: Y2CJ41 on March 30, 2012, 09:33:06 AM

Maybe someday we will stop the "we vs. them" attitude with the IHSAA. When that happens we can probably work WITH them to get improvements within the state tournament series and in wrestling in general. Until then we will continue with the constant struggles we currently have.

This is the mentality of battered wifes that say, "IF I cleaned the house better, and folded his laundry right, and didn't nag him so much about being unemployed...MAYBE he will stop beating me!"

B.S. The IHSAA and their cronies could care less and to "play nice" to them would be to fold up the tent and go away.

F'em...that's my two cents.

Y2CJ41 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 03, 2012, 03:50:07 AM »

And that will help the cause how? How has this attitude helped wrestling in the past?

Maybe the IHSAA treats wrestling like it does because of the way the coaches act, such as defaulting sectional final matches midway through after a coach gets a call on his cell phone. Maybe things like constantly finding "loopholes" in the rules to go to off season events. Maybe things like coaches throwing in their JV team at team regional.... the list goes on as to some possibilities to why the IHSAA treats wrestling the way they do. It is NOT a battered wife syndrome, plain and simple the coaches need to get their acts together.

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Author Topic: IHSAA Class Basketball Discussions- What a Joke (Read 3529 times)