classed team state

[Bash513]

Just curious...

For all of the people who were in favor of classed team state, are you glad that the ihsaa got rid of the current format so that the ihswca could implement the format that we are using next year?  I realize the perfect solution for you would be an ihsaa sponsored classed team state, but given the options we have now, which do you prefer and why?  What is more important, having classes or being affiliated/recognized by the ihsaa?

[Smooth34]

If in 5 years or so, this change leads to a classed team state recognized by the IHSAA, I think it will be worth it.  If we never get it back in any form, I would prefer non-classed team state recognized by the IHSAA.

[Y2CJ41]

If I am presented with the option of having the team state champion determined by a single class dual state tournament or having the state champion determined by the individual state finals I will choose the latter.  The reason for that is it gives more teams an opportunity for success.

[Bash513]

If I am presented with the option of having the team state champion determined by a single class dual state tournament or having the state champion determined by the individual state finals I will choose the latter.  The reason for that is it gives more teams an opportunity for success.

That is not the question though...

The question is unclassed team dual state champ recorgized by the IHSAA, or

Classed dual state champs recoginzed by the IHSWCA

[nnhs]

I prefer the classed dual meet state champion by the IHSWCA.  This gives small schools who never had a chance to win team state a REAL chance

[Y2CJ41]

are you glad that the ihsaa got rid of the current format so that the ihswca could implement the format that we are using next year?

No of course not, any time the IHSAA takes something away it is not good.

I realize the perfect solution for you would be an ihsaa sponsored classed team state, but given the options we have now, which do you prefer and why? 

The IHSAA's state series is the end all, be all of all IHSAA sponsored sports.  Winning an IHSWCA team duals title will be super duper, but it won't hold any more recognition as winning the Al Smith or the Traicoff.  It will be a fine event, but at the same time schools, administrators and the community will be mostly concerned with how a team performs in the IHSAA state series.

What is more important, having classes or being affiliated/recognized by the ihsaa?

The only champions that will be universally accepted by schools, fans and most importantly the record book will be the champions recognized by the IHSAA.  Whether they determine the state champion by team duals, individual state or flipping of a coin the IHSAA's state championship is what teams strive for.  All other events are just that...other events.

[Bash513]

No of course not, any time the IHSAA takes something away it is not good.
The IHSAA's state series is the end all, be all of all IHSAA sponsored sports.  Winning an IHSWCA team duals title will be super duper, but it won't hold any more recognition as winning the Al Smith or the Traicoff.  It will be a fine event, but at the same time schools, administrators and the community will be mostly concerned with how a team performs in the IHSAA state series.
The only champions that will be universally accepted by schools, fans and most importantly the record book will be the champions recognized by the IHSAA.  Whether they determine the state champion by team duals, individual state or flipping of a coin the IHSAA's state championship is what teams strive for.  All other events are just that...other events.

Just a quick point of clarification, will the IHSAA still award a team state champion at the individual state meet?  I don't think I saw that anywhere.  My feeling is that the wrestling community can have a great influence over how the schools and fans view the team state champion if this tournament is done the right way.  If the wrestling community truely celebrates the winners of this tournament as the state champion then perception will become reality.

[Y2CJ41]

Yes the IHSAA will award a championship at Individual State.

I have to disagree with you about how the schools view the team state champion.  Schools will recognize the IHSAA championships over anything.  They will not purchase rings for athletes that win an IHSWCA "championship."  They will not put a banner in the gym if they win, they won't put a banner in the gym if they qualify for it.  This all no matter how much weight the wrestling community puts on the event.

[KarlHungus]

Yes the IHSAA will award a championship at Individual State.

I have to disagree with you about how the schools view the team state champion.  Schools will recognize the IHSAA championships over anything.  They will not purchase rings for athletes that win an IHSWCA "championship."  They will not put a banner in the gym if they win, they won't put a banner in the gym if they qualify for it.  This all no matter how much weight the wrestling community puts on the event.

Are you sure?  I've seen plenty of banners celebrating athletic achievement in non sanctioned sports.  Cheerleading, Poms, Hockey, Boys volleyball.   

[Bash513]

Are you sure?  I've seen plenty of banners celebrating athletic achievement in non sanctioned sports.  Cheerleading, Poms, Hockey, Boys volleyball.   

Maybe my Sarcasm-O-Meter is a little off today, but it does not seem like you are being facetious here...

If the wrestlers treat it as a state championship, then I believe the student body will too.  If the IHSWCA gives out plaques or trophies to the winning/placing teams, then I would be willing to bet that the schools will display them.  I still believe it is all about perception. 

[Y2CJ41]

The difference is sanctioned versus unsanctioned sports. I have never seen an IHSWCA coaches trophy banner in a school.

[Bash513]

The difference is sanctioned versus unsanctioned sports. I have never seen an IHSWCA coaches trophy banner in a school.

So if Garrett were to win an IHSWCA State Championship and provided a trophy (which I assume they will), you do not think that the school would display it or celebrate it?

[tskin]

Actually I have already talked to our administration and kept them informed on how this was unfolding and they had told me if we were to ever get selected or win they would display a banner for it to recognize the achievement.  Since it is the coaches associations tourney and will be the top teams in the state per class.  The have several hall of fame banners hanging from basketball as well.

[Y2CJ41]

They will display it, just as they do our Norwell super dual trophy and our Harding sport dual trophy. In no way shape or form will it be in its own case like the 1974 football state championship or be in the conference and IHSAA trophies. Garrett will celebrate a sectional championship more than an IHSWCA championship.

[KarlHungus]

Maybe my Sarcasm-O-Meter is a little off today, but it does not seem like you are being facetious here...

If the wrestlers treat it as a state championship, then I believe the student body will too.  If the IHSWCA gives out plaques or trophies to the winning/placing teams, then I would be willing to bet that the schools will display them.  I still believe it is all about perception. 

A little sarcastic but all speaking to the point of making it important.  If Garrett would equate it with a super dual trophy, thats too bad.  I would hope that Culver Community school would celebrate it.  I know the team would

[bjax]

I think an IHSWCA classed team state duals trophy win carry more weight than even the best super dual in the state (Traicoff, Bellmont, whatever), but less weight than an IHSAA trophy. Assuming everything with the IHSWCA event goes smoothly as far as the best teams getting invited and actually coming, I think most schools would proudly and prominently display the trophy, although I doubt they would go as far as to buy rings.

[Y2CJ41]

If we would win the Al Smith should we...
Get a banner up?
Get a parade?
Get a special case for the trophy?
Get special rings made?

I would say winning the Al Smith would be just as tough and as prestigious.

[Coach Brown]

Food for thought with the IHSWCA hosting classed Team State do you think that they will have a tournament of Champions???

[KarlHungus]

If we would win the Al Smith should we...
Get a banner up?
Get a parade?
Get a special case for the trophy?
Get special rings made?

I would say winning the Al Smith would be just as tough and as prestigious.

Make of it what you will. 

[Bash513]

If we would win the Al Smith should we...
Get a banner up?
Get a parade?
Get a special case for the trophy?
Get special rings made?

I would say winning the Al Smith would be just as tough and as prestigious.

Honestly, that would probably be more difficult for a school like Garrett because you are competing with schools MUCH larger than yous.  I don't think anyone is talking about parades or special cases.  The idea is if you can get the school excited, and get the cheerleaders or boosters to put up signs around the school celebrating the accomplishment, you probably have a better chance of increasing participation and growing the sport.  If the students celebrate it, then in generates excitement and encourages participation.

[buscowrestling]

If we would win the Al Smith should we...
Get a banner up?
Get a parade?
Get a special case for the trophy?
Get special rings made?

I would say winning the Al Smith would be just as tough and as prestigious.

I know that you know a number of people who wrestled in Ohio, how did they treat their dual meet event?  

[buscowrestling]

Food for thought with the IHSWCA hosting classed Team State do you think that they will have a tournament of Champions???

I doubt it.  With three classes the set-up for something like that would be off, I also dont see there being much of a reason or a push for it either.

[tskin]

Y2,

1.  The Al Smith is a very very tough tourney.  But it is a individual tourney and a true Team Champion can't be determined by a individual Tourney.
2. The Al Smith is .....well the Al Smith, prob the toughest regualr season individual tourney in the State of Indiana, not the IHSWCA Team State Championship
3. I understand completly that anytime you lose something from the IHSAA it is a tremendous blow BUT the IHSWCA is starting this Team State Tourney in hopes of replacing what the IHSAA decided they no longer wanted to provide for us.
4. We as a wrestling community need to stop with the negativity and band together to have one unified voice for the future when dealing with the IHSAA (I will be the first to admit my negativity towards class wrestling several years ago was not what we as a ssociation needed and I am trying to help out and support whatever the majority wants)
5. Y2 I don't care what they say about yea, hate you or really hate you, just kidding (or am I), you have provided the Indiana Wrestling Community a great place to voice our opinions and discuss our great sport of Indiana Wrestling.

[Coach Brown]

I doubt it.  With three classes the set-up for something like that would be off, I also dont see there being much of a reason or a push for it either.

Yea, I can see that I was just throwing it out there.

[Y2CJ41]

Honestly, that would probably be more difficult for a school like Garrett because you are competing with schools MUCH larger than yous.  I don't think anyone is talking about parades or special cases.  The idea is if you can get the school excited, and get the cheerleaders or boosters to put up signs around the school celebrating the accomplishment, you probably have a better chance of increasing participation and growing the sport.  If the students celebrate it, then in generates excitement and encourages participation.

I don't disagree with what you are saying.  If we win sectional, we will get a police and fire escort to the school.  We will get a lot of recognition from administration, the community, the students and the media.  Will we get all that for winning an IHSWCA "state title?"