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Author Topic: Team State Finals Discussion...  (Read 9268 times)

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KarlHungus

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2012, 02:07:15 PM »
Massengale nasty win over Schurg
My name is Chad


AJ

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2012, 02:08:14 PM »
Massengale wins by fall.....

PM has wrapped up their 2nd straight team title.....

PM 36  CP 8
AJ Bradley


KarlHungus

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2012, 02:11:04 PM »
Very impressive showing.
My name is Chad

AJ

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2012, 02:16:50 PM »
Very impressive showing.

agreed... PM has really put a solid end to this great season they had...  impressive


PM 40 CP 8   with 3 matches left.....
AJ Bradley

AJ

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2012, 02:42:46 PM »
Final Score

PM 43  CP 14
AJ Bradley

rdrodd1

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2012, 08:29:45 PM »
This is dumb or maybe that's where his shoulder problems started in the first place

That match two years ago at State was the first time Tyler has ever had any injury whatsoever.  That kid wouldn't quit anything.  The only thing that I have ever heard of Tyler quitting was mowing the lawn. 
If you are pointing a finger,  there are 3 of them pointing back at you.......

rdrodd1

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2012, 08:39:18 PM »
wow... willis takes young Kral down hard.. ref awards two and then lets them wrestle for above 6 seconds...  ref then stops and awards kral injury time...  he then talks to outside official and changes call to an illegal slam...  very odd to change a call so late...

I agree with you AJ.  The fact that the ref kept letting them wrestle afterward was the baffling part of that match.  If the assistant ref thought that it was an illegal and the opponent got injured couldn't he have stopped the match right then?  I am not sure about that call and that is why I am asking but the takedown sure looked like a hard one but not a slam.
If you are pointing a finger,  there are 3 of them pointing back at you.......

Coach Peck

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2012, 09:33:44 PM »
I agree with you AJ.  The fact that the ref kept letting them wrestle afterward was the baffling part of that match.  If the assistant ref thought that it was an illegal and the opponent got injured couldn't he have stopped the match right then?  I am not sure about that call and that is why I am asking but the takedown sure looked like a hard one but not a slam.

I do not have a rule book with me, but I think the way the rule is written it would not possible for several seconds to pass and then a conference take place before a "slam" is finally called.

MidwestBankers

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2012, 10:02:23 PM »
Coach Peck,

Rule 5.1.2
Bad time also involves time that occurs when a clock should have been stopped at the end of a period OR when wrestling has been allowed to continue following a violation when the match should have been stopped.  

The assistant is a dead whistle, so they couldn't have stepped in and stopped it.  Rather, their role would be to note the time on the clock at time of incedent and if conferenced they would advise match official of where exactly the incident occured.  Had he decided to continue, wrestling/scoring would have reverted back to that point in the match and all wrestling/scoring that occured after that point would have been erased.

Hope this helps!
Derick Huntwork
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 10:05:06 PM by MidwestBankers »

bjax

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2012, 05:53:45 AM »
Very exciting final team state. I thought the Penn vs. Cathedral, and especially the Crown Point vs. Cathedral, matches were very fun to watch. 

I was a little disappointed in the Mater Dei vs. Perry Meridian match, but I think that just goes to show how much better Perry Meridian was than everyone else. Congratulations to Perry Meridian!! They were awesome yesterday.

It was also neat to see Bellmont and Mater Dei going at it in the final team state.

hiddenwrestler

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2012, 07:29:28 AM »
I have to say Cathedral vs. Crown Point was definitely the best match of the day. I think this one could of gone either way because I'm pretty sure Cathedral's 170 pinned his kid but got robbed and I feel like Willis would have gotten the pin if Kral continued to wrestle. Did anyone see the fleeing the mat call 113 and 170??? I no little Harvey had a deep waist and half and got called for fleeing which was one of the more ridiculous calls I saw yesterday. Congrats to everyone though and to Perry for the state championship!

Butt Drag

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2012, 09:06:31 AM »
I have to say Cathedral vs. Crown Point was definitely the best match of the day. I think this one could of gone either way because I'm pretty sure Cathedral's 170 pinned his kid but got robbed and I feel like Willis would have gotten the pin if Kral continued to wrestle. Did anyone see the fleeing the mat call 113 and 170??? I no little Harvey had a deep waist and half and got called for fleeing which was one of the more ridiculous calls I saw yesterday. Congrats to everyone though and to Perry for the state championship!

Did they allow Kral to get into the patented Bulldog Big Guy Offense, code name "HOC-PBS-VHF-WOSMCOS" ?   ::)

As I understand the way it is taught, that stands for Head-in--Opponent-Chest, Push-Block-Stall,  VLINK-Holds-Fist-in-Air, Works-Official-for-Six-Minutes-Claiming-Opponent-is-Stalling[/size]






Coach Peck

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2012, 02:03:35 PM »
Coach Peck,

Rule 5.1.2
Bad time also involves time that occurs when a clock should have been stopped at the end of a period OR when wrestling has been allowed to continue following a violation when the match should have been stopped.  

The assistant is a dead whistle, so they couldn't have stepped in and stopped it.  Rather, their role would be to note the time on the clock at time of incedent and if conferenced they would advise match official of where exactly the incident occured.  Had he decided to continue, wrestling/scoring would have reverted back to that point in the match and all wrestling/scoring that occured after that point would have been erased.

Hope this helps!

Derick Huntwork

Thanks Derrick.  I hope you are well.

It makes sense to a degree.  Basically, are you saying that in the case of an incident where the assistant official sees an illegal action he can/does over rule the Mat Official.  I was not there yesterday so I am thinking in general terms, but I guess the question is can the Mat Official ignore the Assistant in the case of an illegal act such as a slam, or full nelson, or locked hands?   It seems like the mat offiicial did not feel like a slam occurred, but upon stopage the assistant told him he felt that there was a slam and then it was called...could have the mat Official simply said there was no slam and went on?  What I am saying is that, according to the wording of the rule, I do not think the mat official can go back after time has elapsed and call a slam, but I guess  as you note the assistant can see the incident and at the apropriate time make the call.

Like I said I was not there and do not know who the Officials were working that match.  I am sure they did a great job.  The whole thing just made me think (which can cause problems in itself).  I think that Officiating in Indiana is light years ahead of where it was even five years ago.

pinking89

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2012, 02:52:48 PM »
Cath. 170 was pinned in the first as well as cp in the third. One of the craziest matches ever at such an important part of the dual.

terryopinionated

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2012, 03:13:24 PM »
Did they allow Kral to get into the patented Bulldog Big Guy Offense, code name "HOC-PBS-VHF-WOSMCOS" ?   ::)

As I understand the way it is taught, that stands for Head-in--Opponent-Chest, Push-Block-Stall,  VLINK-Holds-Fist-in-Air, Works-Official-for-Six-Minutes-Claiming-Opponent-is-Stalling[/size]

Wow, that is not really a very mature post Mr Ayersman  :-X :-\ ;)

MidwestBankers

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2012, 03:52:20 PM »
Peck,

Key word is DEAD whistle....meaning not a live whistle or inactive for that matche. It's not his match and he cannot call a thing.  If called upon though he would need to help/know time of incident and that point forward is bad time.... In no way was I suggesting that he interrupt the match!

-Derick Huntworki

nittanylion

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2012, 04:04:29 PM »
Mr. Ayersman,
I'm sure if need be,  you could teach Kral some of the offensive moves you've taught your son. ;D ;D

Butt Drag

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2012, 01:51:26 AM »
Mr. Ayersman,
I'm sure if need be,  you could teach Kral some of the offensive moves you've taught your son. ;D ;D

Not the father of Kyle Ayersman.

twistedhalf

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2012, 07:49:14 AM »
the problem is that when the kid was slammed they awarded the 2 for a takedown then waited about 10 seconds and the kid called "HIS OWN INJURY TIME" then after a few seconds he got up walked around  and said he couldn't continue then he went to the trainer and hoped up on their table like it was nothing.

bjax

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2012, 09:47:31 AM »
the problem is that when the kid was slammed they awarded the 2 for a takedown then waited about 10 seconds and the kid called "HIS OWN INJURY TIME" then after a few seconds he got up walked around  and said he couldn't continue then he went to the trainer and hoped up on their table like it was nothing.

It was definitely a slam. Even you seem to agree that it was a slam ("when the kind was slammed"). The head ref missed the call and let the action continue while the CP wrestler writhed in pain. The assistant ref made the right call by letting the head ref know it was a slam. And I think it is rather controversial of you to suggest the CP wrestler took a dive. I really have no idea, but I would never suggest that without it being substantiated. Plus, I don't recall seeing him the finals match.

AJ

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2012, 09:53:55 AM »
It was definitely a slam. Even you seem to agree that it was a slam ("when the kind was slammed"). The head ref missed the call and let the action continue while the CP wrestler writhed in pain. The assistant ref made the right call by letting the head ref know it was a slam. And I think it is rather controversial of you to suggest the CP wrestler took a dive. I really have no idea, but I would never suggest that without it being substantiated. Plus, I don't recall seeing him the finals match.

"definitely a slam" is strong wording since it was not originally called a slam.  it looked like a good hard double and I was actually surprised when the official changed the call.

The young man did not wrestle in the finals, but the dual was out of contention anyway so even if he could wrestle if he was hurt then it was a good call by Coach Vlink to sit him out.


I do hope the young man is ok....
AJ Bradley

thepinner

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2012, 10:41:49 AM »
Two refs authorized to call a pin.  Why is it that either ref has the authority to call "locking hands" on a wrestler, but only the "acting" official is authorized to call a pin.   I think at least at the state level when two officials are present,  either one should be able to call a pin when they see it.  With all due respect  to the officials, it takes well over 2 seconds for most of these men past their 30's to reposition themselves to the other side of the action to see a two second pin.  I have seen at the free style level at regionals and above, one of the other two officials hold up their paddle when they see a pin.

Wrestling Mole

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2012, 12:02:16 PM »
Two refs authorized to call a pin.  Why is it that either ref has the authority to call "locking hands" on a wrestler, but only the "acting" official is authorized to call a pin.   I think at least at the state level when two officials are present,  either one should be able to call a pin when they see it.  With all due respect  to the officials, it takes well over 2 seconds for most of these men past their 30's to reposition themselves to the other side of the action to see a two second pin.  I have seen at the free style level at regionals and above, one of the other two officials hold up their paddle when they see a pin.


That's not altogether accurate....
The assistant referee has no "authority to call" anything. He/she can certainly signal locked hands, illegal holds, unnecessary roughness, etc., but the head official can overrule his call and does not have to abide by his signal. Normally, however, the head official would not overrule the assistant if he/she did not see what the assistant said that they saw (locked hands, for instance).

I believe in the matter of the "slam", the assistant official, from his angle, saw that the defensive wrestler's arms were tied up to the point that he could not extend them and therefore protect himself, whereas the head official could not see that from his angle. It may (emphasis on may) have been not so much the force in which the wrestler was taken to the mat, but the fact that his arms were tied up and therefore he landed awkwardly and was injured. The offensive wrestler is responsible to insure that the defensive wrestler is returned to the mat safely. Unfortunately, when the move occured with 30+ seconds to go, it was not determined that the defensive wrestler was injured for nearly 7 seconds. At that point the officials discussed what occurred and the call was made. Had the defensive wrestler been able to continue, the clock would have been reset to 30 seconds, as that's when the act occurred.

I agree, having mat judges on the sides to make calls and/or overrule the mat official might be a good option, especially at the state level of competition. Suggestions such as these can be made to the National Federation at www.nfhs.org , and your's is a good one  :)

wrestlerfamily

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Re: Team State Finals Discussion...
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2012, 07:37:55 AM »
Interesting notes:

120 Keuneke reversed the outcome from Friday night as he beat Goebel in a close one...


Kokomo forfeited 160, Jesse Goodnight.   not sure why...

152 Gillum did not wresle for Cathedral 1st round


Goodnight forfeited due to a fractured sternum.