My IHSWCA Dual Invite

[GrecoCoach]

I like this much better.  I still think some schools with ADs that are not to sympathetic to wrestling might have an issue with having to change schedules from year to year for teams on the bubble.

I agree.  That's the biggest reason why we'd have to use the previous year's results of returning wrestlers for the invitations.  It's not perfect, but it gives schools and ADs several months to make the appropriate arrangements.  If the AD is not willing to adjust the schedule, then the team would just have to pass on the invite and allow the next team in line a chance to compete in it.

[GrecoCoach]

After you get the invites, rank them 1-24; with 1-8 going to Bracket A, 9-16 going to Bracket B, and 17-24 going to Bracket C. This is what that would look like.
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Anyways, what this format does is allows for teams to be matched up better by  talent vs. by just how big your school is. So, some years, you might have a team that competes in Bracket A, then the next year compete in Bracket C. I'm going to stop typing now.

I see what you're trying to accomplish with this format, and I like that it provides the best competition possible.  We'd have to find out what most people would prefer... 1) a balanced tournament for competition or 2) a truly classed tournament.  The survey results showed that people want it classed, and I'm afraid that if we mix them together people won't see it as what they wanted and won't get behind the whole idea.

[AJ]

I see what you're trying to accomplish with this format, and I like that it provides the best competition possible.  We'd have to find out what most people would prefer... 1) a balanced tournament for competition or 2) a truly classed tournament.  The survey results showed that people want it classed, and I'm afraid that if we mix them together people won't see it as what they wanted and won't get behind the whole idea.

Isnt a balanced tournament actually a classed tournament, but just not based off of a schools population?

And wouldnt something like this keep one small school from dominationg the smaller divisions every year and possibly keep a few bigger schools from dominateing as well?

[GrecoCoach]

Then why involve classes at all?  Let's just take the top 24 teams regardless of class and split them up (sarcasm).  People complained that small schools couldn't compete, now that we're talking about setting it up with classes people complain about something else.  When will it end?  Probably when nobody agrees and the whole thing gets scrapped.

[AJ]

Then why involve classes at all?  Let's just take the top 24 teams regardless of class and split them up (sarcasm).  People complained that small schools couldn't compete, now that we're talking about setting it up with classes people complain about something else.  When will it end?  Probably when nobody agrees and the whole thing gets scrapped.

I wasnt complaining.....  I was asking a question...

[KarlHungus]

Isnt a balanced tournament actually a classed tournament, but just not based off of a schools population?

All classes in all states are based on school population so a tournament that is organized in another fashion would not be classed in any way that makes sense to 99.9% of the population.

[NickS]

Ohio's tournament is working so well, that they are switching to the type of tournament that we are giving up.

Umm yeah, you're actually right. The OHSWCA (the equivalent to the IHSWCA) was running a great invitational tournament. The OHSAA (different organization) was impressed and decided to run an official team state-dual tournament. Why would the OHSAA undertake such a project if it wasn't working for the OHSWCA?

Here's a link to what the OHSAA is planning on doing.

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/wr/boys/2011/LetterRegardingTeamTournament.pdf

Technically, even this is not an all-in tournament.

[infowrestling]

Umm yeah, you're actually right. The OHSWCA (the equivalent to the IHSWCA) was running a great invitational tournament. The OHSAA (different organization) was impressed and decided to run an official team state-dual tournament. Why would the OHSAA undertake such a project if it wasn't working for the OHSWCA?

Here's a link to what the OHSAA is planning on doing.

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/wr/boys/2011/LetterRegardingTeamTournament.pdf

Technically, even this is not an all-in tournament.

I would be fine with inviting only those with 8 or more weight classes filled

[NickS]

For those who are interested, here's the point system the OHSWCA is using to determine which teams they invite to their duals.

http://www.fcpsports.com/teamsitepro/ohswca/showBlank.php?link_id=4466&section_id=470

[NickS]

All classes in all states are based on school population so a tournament that is organized in another fashion would not be classed in any way that makes sense to 99.9% of the population.

So a tournament can't be classed based on the level of skilled wrestlers returning?

[KarlHungus]

So a tournament can't be classed based on the level of skilled wrestlers returning?

Sure it can.  It could be classed on school colors or how handsome the assistant coaches are too but if you are going to call it classed people are going to assume that it is classed by enrollment.

[Y2CJ41]

Sure it can.  It could be classed on school colors or how handsome the assistant coaches are too but if you are going to call it classed people are going to assume that it is classed by enrollment.

Garrett and Culver would definitely be in the good looking class then.

[AJ]

Sure it can.  It could be classed on school colors or how handsome the assistant coaches are too but if you are going to call it classed people are going to assume that it is classed by enrollment.

Well that is an easy fix.  You just dont call it a class tournament.  You use a different term, that way people dont assume its based off of enrollment.  I understand that the term class in sports is tied to enrollment, so one simply changes the term so that it is not confusing to the masses....

What would be the problem with putting the best teams in divisions?  Football is going to make the best teams bump up, assuming that proposal gets passed, and other sports can bump up a class.  It seems as if the line on class is already being skewed by the IHSAA and other organizations.

[NickS]

I see what you're trying to accomplish with this format, and I like that it provides the best competition possible.  We'd have to find out what most people would prefer... 1) a balanced tournament for competition or 2) a truly classed tournament.  The survey results showed that people want it classed, and I'm afraid that if we mix them together people won't see it as what they wanted and won't get behind the whole idea.

I agree. Has a "balanced" tournament ever been considered? You'll still have equal representation from 3 classes. Just that you'll have teams matched up more evenly by skill and not just based on size. As you can see, generally, the big schools will face the big schools, as would the small schools with small schools. The "balanced" idea just allows for those rare situations that a 1a or 2a has a loaded team can compete with the big boys.

If it's explained properly, I think people will get behind it very quickly. I mean, since this will be an IHSWCA ran tournament, they can basically do anything that they people want.

[Matmeister]

I SayJust take the Top Two Conference Teams from Each Conference and set up the Team tournament.

[Y2CJ41]

I agree. Has a "balanced" tournament ever been considered? You'll still have equal representation from 3 classes. Just that you'll have teams matched up more evenly by skill and not just based on size. As you can see, generally, the big schools will face the big schools, as would the small schools with small schools. The "balanced" idea just allows for those rare situations that a 1a or 2a has a loaded team can compete with the big boys.

If it's explained properly, I think people will get behind it very quickly. I mean, since this will be an IHSWCA ran tournament, they can basically do anything that they people want.

The thing about a "balanced" tournament is while two teams might have the same number of studs returning, the second tier wrestlers at the big school level are significantly better than the second tier wrestlers at the small school level.

[NickS]

The thing about a "balanced" tournament is while two teams might have the same number of studs returning, the second tier wrestlers at the big school level are significantly better than the second tier wrestlers at the small school level.

That's why I'm using returning points earned throughout the entire state tournament. 2 teams might be equal in studs returning. However, the team with better 2nd tier wrestlers will earn more points than the other team's.

Keep in mind, there are still going to be equal #'s throughout 3 classes. So the small schools aren't getting the shaft. I know you're trying to insinuate this. On top of that, there would be 3 brackets with each wrestling to a different level. Bracket A would be for the upper tier teams, Bracket B would be for the middle tier teams, and Bracket C for the lower tier teams. With equal representation throughout the classes to boot. Everyone's happy. (BOOYAH!!!) 

[dullguy]

The IHSWCA implemented and put our a 3 Class wrestling ranking this past year for the first time and should be complimented for that for sure!!! This was a HUGE step in the correct direction for Wrestling Team State competions.

If you want to have an IHSWCA team competition in the future, I would suggest that these state ranking team classification be used and you invite the top 8 from each class to wrestle in a team tournament within their class as has been done for the current IHSAA Team Championship in the recent past. The tournament can be held at one location or at 3 different locations with a Champion in each class being crowned.

I am sure South Adams, Adams Central, or Garrett would love to host the Class A IHSWCA tournament regardless of who is invited to participate.