5 Hours Between Matches Is Okay For ISWA

[tskin]

Coaches and parents should make a judgement on whether the state tournament is the best thing for young and inexperienced wrestlers.  There are plenty of other tournaments that won't last that long.  Especially the ones that do the youngsters early and the older kids later.

I think for the most part it is a mistake to take a first year wrestler to the state tournament unless he has shown special wrestling ability or he can take a loss well.

Yes my son attended his first ever ISWA event at Yorktown and I am easing him into wrestling and we did not attend the folkstyle state.

[Browns Dad]

Back in the day..... Mats were sectioned and sections removed as the rounds progressed. I was not around wrestling during the 90's much. AAU was the dominate force in the region during the 80's. Maybe someone could fill me in as to the arguments against sectioning mats.
My wife has had the displeasure of taking our 9 yr. old to 2 tourneys this year. One in Lafayette, which he did not wrestle until 11:00 a.m. and again at 2.00 p.m. Later his finals opponent did not show up. Zack said he was probably afraid of him! My wife said parents got tired of waiting. Then again this weekend for State. His 3rd round was called at 2:30. She will not escort him anymore if I have to work.
Alot of work goes into these tourneys. If the State tourney with 900+ wrestlers is more efficient time wise than a local tourney with 200 I think that is pretty good.
I only wish she had drawn a tourney like the one put on at Southmont a few weeks ago. Very efficient.

Great job to all Coaches, officials, board members, and volunteers!!!

[wrestler60160]

There are so many up's and downs with all youth sports. And to be honest, I have loved every minute of it.
Now next year my little guy goes into high school and my involvement will ne very limited. Basically, o am going to be bored to death. No more running to club, sitting in a gym 12 hours every weekend. So look at it this way. Enjoy it now because your time with him or her will end sooner then you think.

[The Guru]

Maybe Folkstyle State tournament has simply just outgrown its current format.  The tournament may have been ran well considering the number of athletes and the limited amount of mats used but in todays world time is very important and people will focus on it.  

Maybe its time we went to regions and had actualy qualifying tournaments.  Then those top 8 wrestlers advance to the state tournament.  

If Folkstyle continues to grow, then we made need to evaluate the way in which we do things simply beause the numbers may get to big for one venue on one day.

I just want to make a few points:

1. The ISWA used to have sectionals to qualify for the state tournament. This seems like a reasonable approach. I haven't really thought much about how it would affect middle school schedules etc.

2. If you think Ohio runs great tournaments, you haven't wrestled much in Ohio.

3. I think the ISWA runs some of the finest youth tournaments in the country. In fact, IMO one of the faults of the ISWA is that they may be too accommodating to people, e.g.; people sprawled out all over the hallways where coaches have to run (now single-file) from gym to gym for 10 hours, people congregating at the entrance/exits, people mobbing the floor, people planting their chairs in one place and then standing all day in the walking areas, people with queen size blow-up mattresses in the damn hallways, psycho coaches arguing calls while the 7-year-olds stand and watch etc etc etc etc et cetcetcetcetcetectcetectectec!!!!!!!!!!!! I saw at least 10 guys who should have been thrown out and probably 400 that should have been forced to move their camp sites.

4. I love the same mat pairing.

5. This was supposed to be a two day event and I feel like if it was more people would be raving about it.

6. Venue... there simply isn't any venue that can accommodate the number of mats we need with any quality of seating. So if seating and crowd control are a big part of the problem, we should think about further separating the age groups in to different events. I actually think this might add to the notoriety and prestige of winning one of the tournaments, as more of a focus could be made of the final matches. Again, I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it makes sense to me.

[randalllynch]

Some people may be forgetting, Folkstyle State is already broken up into two events, as many coaches will be traveling back to Indy this weekend for the second half; Schoolboys, Cadets, and Juniors.

[mtv2112]

Maybe Folkstyle State tournament has simply just outgrown its current format.  The tournament may have been ran well considering the number of athletes and the limited amount of mats used but in todays world time is very important and people will focus on it.  

Maybe its time we went to regions and had actual qualifying tournaments based off of the region.  Then those top 8 wrestlers advance to the state tournament from each region.  

If Folkstyle continues to grow, then we made need to evaluate the way in which we do things simply beause the numbers may get to big for one venue on one day.

An obvious benefit, obvious to me at least, is that regional qualifiers would attract more kids to the state tournament "series". The downside is that two weekends would be used up and making sure qualifiers showed up.  I think this is the illinois way.

[edb41]

Make the kids qualify for the State Final by placing first or second in an ISWA sanctioned event.  This would reduce the numbers and thereby reduce the load on the facility.

That might cause a cash flow issue.

[UCdad]

sb25,
I went back and paragraphed it.Sorry it was so long.I never was very good in english.Math was my thing.
 
I was at the first middle school state tourney at New Castle the year after the ISWA quit doing them.  My boy weighed in at 7am wrestled his last match for a true second at 11:50 pm.This was on a Sunday we had work and school the next day! Talk about brutal.  Stuff like that is what needs to change.

[Y2CJ41]

FYI on the regional idea...

There were 50 weight classes this weekend(I think).
If we had four regionals where the top four advanced that would mean we could have around 800 kids at state.  Obviously some weights would not be filled, but it would still be a heck of a lot of kids/parents/fans and coaches.

[MattM]

That might cause a cash flow issue.

That what I was thinking.  I'd say a 'semi-state" event may be a better way to go.   Just brainstorming but top 4 from any local event is can participate in the "semi-state."  Then top 4 from the "semi-state" can go to state.   Maybe charge state participant cost at the "semi-state" so those who place already have state paid for and will be more likely to attend rather than paying participation fee twice.  I'd like to see more state weight classes with more than a handful of kids in them personally, but the 20+ kids in a weight can be daunting too.  By having more localized "semi-state" events you may draw more people in many weights than the state finals currently does thus the cash flow will be higher.  Then a second cash flow can be generated from the attendance at both the "semi-state" and state events.  This type of setup could work for both Folkstyle and Freestyle.  Only major downsides would there would still be a lot of kids in each weight class,  and you would be limiting the talent that would come from each area.

[Barrq]

sb25,
I went back and paragraphed it.Sorry it was so long.I never was very good in english.Math was my thing.
 
I was at the first middle school state tourney at New Castle the year after the ISWA quit doing them.  My boy weighed in at 7am wrestled his last match for a true second at 11:50 pm.This was on a Sunday we had work and school the next day! Talk about brutal.  Stuff like that is what needs to change.

We were there also and were the second to the last match that Monday morning. This stuff here there complaining about just makes me laugh!!

[UCdad]

Guru,
I never said all Ohio tournaments I said the Ohio T of C. But yes we have wrestled in Ohio alot and the Cincinnati youth tourneys that we went to used the same format as the T of C same mat all day.They used to split the age groups as well 5-8's in the mornings and 9-12's in the afternoons 1n 8 man double elimination brackets and we would be done in 4 hrs or less. We used to wrestle in the Dayton Ohio youth league as well but they would pair the kids up by age and win/loss records and put them in 4 man round robin groups if you had a stud you could bump them up a age group.It was in Dayton's rules that your mini-tourney had to be done in 3 hours  or things would have to change. Dayton also had meetings before the season started that coaches would attend and bid on which mini-tourneys they wanted to attend once that tourney reached it's maximum amount in numbers you could no longer bid on it.Dayton is also USAW sanctioned.Cincinnati's was open to anyone and was insured by a private insurance co.We went to these for years prior to becoming involved in the ISWA and both these leagues had a leg up on us without a doubt.So to say we never wrestled in Ohio very much you are wrong my friend.

[1oldwrestler]

I can't believe anyone is suggesting creating qualifying tournaments for ISWA state meets.  Good Lord, all we do on this website is gripe and moan about how our sport is failing to attract new devotees.  So, the way to increase popularity is to make getting into the state tournament harder?  It's the off season, folks.  This is when kids train and get better for the upcoming season.  You don't get better during a season.  Believe me, our state Folkstyle tourney isn't anything to be afraid of.  My oldest didn't start wrestling until 7th grade for his middle school.  To that point he had never set foot on a mat.  His first year he wrestled j.v.  (75 lb wt class) After that season ended he didn't pick up his wrestling shoes again until the following middle school season, his 8th gr year.  When that season ended, he was 16-8 and had placed 5th in the season ending conference tourney at 85 lbs.  Someone mentioned off season wrestling and how Huntington North was hosting something.  I signed him up and so our first intro into off season wrestling was the chaos of folkstyle state.  I had wrestled in h.s. but was never involved in offseason stuff so this was new to me.  This was when pee wees thru juniors were all together still over two days.  He wrestled 84 school boy and his bracket was full.  He won 2 and lost 2 which wasn't too bad for a kid with very little expereince.  His interest grew and he had a fine h.s. career.  I look back on that day fondly because of how little I knew and now going to these things with my youngest is like falling off a log.  So what if you only get a match or two over 8 hours.  As someone before stated, the time with your kids will come and go and you'll be wishing for those days again.  Enjoy the it, they grow up too fast.  Leave the ISWA state tournamnets just as they are. 

[AJ]

FYI on the regional idea...

There were 50 weight classes this weekend(I think).
If we had four regionals where the top four advanced that would mean we could have around 800 kids at state.  Obviously some weights would not be filled, but it would still be a heck of a lot of kids/parents/fans and coaches.

Very true.   But it would be less than the 972 we had this year.  And if it continue to grow, which I assume many wrestling fans and coaches want our tournaments to continue to grow,  then this 800 number may start looking real good.

I know this idea has some issues not thought all the way out yet, but I was just presenting an idea of a possible solution.

I actually think this will get more wrestlers out.  The State tournament will become more than just another tournament.  The regionals would become big events as well.  It is just an idea. 

And I think it is a good thing when our problems start to become about having too many kids in a tournament or having a place big enough to hold the venue.

Keep up good work ISWA

[kid125dynamite]

every time i get on this site there is a new thread full of people complaining and crying bout how this trn. was ran or how bad the officiating was at this trn. or whatever else all you people cry about on a given day.....my advice is sign your kids up for soccer or tennis or some other sport besides wrestling bcuz if all you have to do is complain and whine over just about every aspect of the sport then find a new sport.......PERIOD

[BIGJOESCOUT]

My question is anyone who"s child has played base/soft ball. Those Tournaments take 2 days no one complains. It is expected; maybe 3 games in a 14 hour day.  Does this come from a grandpa who will sit all day in a blazing sun while waiting for his grandchild to come up to bat?    While 5 hours is a long time, in independent tournaments it can be expected at times. when my son wrestled middle school State, he got in 3 matches on sat. came back and had to wrestle again on Sunday. followed by a 5 hour drive home, Sunday Night. at least now it all gets done in 1 day for them.

[teammills]

I think the ISWA has done a tremendous job in each of the state tournaments that we have attended.  I love the fact they have added the podium and video the finals.  I think it really shows they are trying to continue to improve the tournament each and every year.  Considering this event will be back to the 2-day format next year, I would think it will run even quicker.  The only tournament that I have been to that runs smoother is Tulsa Nationals, but that is a multi-day event in a good arena with lots of volunteers to assist from start to finish.

[IntegratedCarp]

Our family was there Saturday and wish to stay loyal to the iswa.  The podium and wrestling on the same mat all day is very nice.  The iswa obviously works hard to put on the event.  What he is stating is accurate though.  Our club had several wrestlers with extraordinarily long waits of three or more hours.  With nearly 1,000 wrestlers and the old-time format being used that was just going to happen although.  Mentally, I guess I was just prepared for it and knew iswa folks were giving it a strong effort, plus they are all volunteers.

At the same time, having lived in Michigan before returning to Indiana, I can say from firsthand experience that Michigan runs their tournaments in a more expeditious manner.  At any Michigan tournament it is rare to ever wait more than 45 minutes between matches.  That is because they use a staggered start time for all age groups.  By starting various ages at 8 am, 11 am and 2pm, the event becomes more manageable.  Just something to consider in the future.

I want to thank all the volunteers again.  That is a long day and your effort is appreciated.

[twinwrestlersmom]

My kids have had really long waits before ,but that was because they got a first round bye. Could this have been the case? If so there really is nothing that could have been done.

[SlickRodz]

My son also had a very long wait for early matches. His 1st match was at noon and his second was at 3pm, then wrestled 4 more times in the next 2 hours. I do not fault the tourney and think it was ran very well , just a lot of wretlers.

My frustration was with the awards. His weight class was complete at 5:25 (all placers wrestlered at the same time) and we did not leave till after 8pm waiting on the awards. These are State awards so of course we waited, but 90 min. to get them is horrible! I really can't see an excuse for taking this long. Those with long drives could have used that time after a long day.

Hard to make a suggestion as to fix this problem as I do not know how the awards were done. We did offer to help to make the process go faster but they did not want it.

[BIGJOESCOUT]

I wasn't at the youth meet but at the Schoolboy-Junior state meet everything went very smooth as far as I was concerned. Yes my son had a 4 hour break BUT that was because he had a bye.  There were alot of people  in attendance as there were over 1100 wrestlers at the event. WC was a great venue for the tournament. Could have there been improvements? I am sure there could have been, and I am sure the staff will address some of the most obvioul ones for next year .  That being said I applaude the staff on such a huge event. It is not easy to run; but easy to critize. My advise to Walt Harris is if you think it is broken, volunteer to help your insight would be of great benefit! My only suggestion would be posting a Floor Map for those of us not familiar with WC.
Thanks for a great Meet!

[PROPOWER]

My son also had a very long wait for early matches. His 1st match was at noon and his second was at 3pm, then wrestled 4 more times in the next 2 hours. I do not fault the tourney and think it was ran very well , just a lot of wretlers.

My frustration was with the awards. His weight class was complete at 5:25 (all placers wrestlered at the same time) and we did not leave till after 8pm waiting on the awards. These are State awards so of course we waited, but 90 min. to get them is horrible! I really can't see an excuse for taking this long. Those with long drives could have used that time after a long day.

Hard to make a suggestion as to fix this problem as I do not know how the awards were done. We did offer to help to make the process go faster but they did not want it.

Slick -
I am sure you are talking about Junior 215 - I am very sorry that there was long wait for your son to get his award.  There was a situation where the championship round bout sheets were miss placed and information could not be placed into the computer until they were found.  We had 3 people looking all over the place for them and they ended up being mixed in with another weight class.  
On both Saturday and Sunday we experimented with using computers right at the mat (like they do at USA Folkstyle Nationals) in the main gym.  It seemed to work very well and we are looking to use that style of pairing at future ISWA Events.  This would help eliminate issues like misplacing bout sheets and help speed up the awards process.  Again sorry to all the JR 215's that had to wait an extra long time to get their awards.  We will be working hard to fix that problem. Chris Lynch - ISWA Folkstyle Director

[SlickRodz]

Slick -
I am sure you are talking about Junior 215 - I am very sorry that there was long wait for your son to get his award.  There was a situation where the championship round bout sheets were miss placed and information could not be placed into the computer until they were found.  We had 3 people looking all over the place for them and they ended up being mixed in with another weight class.  
On both Saturday and Sunday we experimented with using computers right at the mat (like they do at USA Folkstyle Nationals) in the main gym.  It seemed to work very well and we are looking to use that style of pairing at future ISWA Events.  This would help eliminate issues like misplacing bout sheets and help speed up the awards process.  Again sorry to all the JR 215's that had to wait an extra long time to get their awards.  We will be working hard to fix that problem. Chris Lynch - ISWA Folkstyle Director

Thanks for the explanation! Mistakes happen and if it was a single weight class (yes my son was JR-215) no problem. We were not provided with any explanation that is was a single class so I assumed that everyone was waiting that long. Again I thought it was one of the best big tourney's I have ever been too. Thanks for all the effort and time!!!

[JB1212]

I know Mat 6 ran terrible. It was way behind every other mat for some reason. My son waited over 3 hours between matches without a bye. My son was tired and frustrated with the 12 hour day. Is it possible to break it down over two days? Did it use to be like that? We have only been wrestling for a few years.

[MattM]

I know Mat 6 ran terrible. It was way behind every other mat for some reason. My son waited over 3 hours between matches without a bye. My son was tired and frustrated with the 12 hour day. Is it possible to break it down over two days? Did it use to be like that? We have only been wrestling for a few years.

I could be mistaken but I believe someone mentioned it was going to be two days in the future.  Seems like I recall also hearing that it was even suppose to be two days this year originally, but a complication arose.  The two day event at Warren Central seemed to help break the crowd up a lot though it would be somewhat of an issue for those who have a long drive home after being there late into Sunday.