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WoodJC82

ISWA Elementary Team State

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Noticed the weight class have changed and with this the number of weight class has been reduced from 17 to 15...any reason as to why?

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I'm only speculating so take it for what it is.

 

I think that there are two reasons behind the changes.  The first being that the new weights mirror the new USA Wrestling weights.  The second, I believe, that the thought was because it is harder for some schools to fill a 40 lb class and a 150 lb class.  I don't mind the change from 40 to 43.  I am sure that they looked at the data from previous tournaments and saw that schools had a tougher time filling the 40 lb weight class and some of the upper weights.  They kept 175 so that schools could fill it even with a kid weighing 131.  Many schools have bumped 150 lbers to heavyweight in the past.

I don't like that they took a weight from the bigger weights and lump a whole group of kids in heavyweight.  I think it takes some opportunities away from some kids.  If we go to team state, then I'm going to have about 2-3 kids that won't get to wrestle.  

In the Indiana Wrestling League, or IWL,  we are keeping the weights the same and actually have a super heavyweight added to promote more wrestling opportunities for Indiana kids, forfeits be damned.  The culmination of our tournament at the end of the is an league All-star team taken from the champions of each weight.  Those champs will be put on a team for the Kingsport duals in Tennessee during April.

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You can email Pat Culp and Ryan Parrish about your thoughts.  I am sure they can give you insight as well as listen to your thoughts as well.

I personally like to have more weight classes.  The ability to obtain at least two wild cards should be sufficient to fill weight classes but that is up to each individual coach.  I am going to wait until after the tournament to gauge the effects of the change before putting my 'official' two cents in.

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On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 4:09 PM, V and M's Dad said:

Hopefully in their discussions they come up with a way to keep a certain team honest.

I can only assume you mean that light blue team from Southside with the bird mascot ???   Good luck with that !!!!  ..... hahahahah  I kid.  those are some of my favorite guys to talk to down there.  @lewdwar and @V and M's Dad and especially my guy @bluemonster  all solid guys in my book !!!!

I hope this year goes off without a hitch and is pleasing to all that enter.  If not feel free to reach out to Ryan Parrish (LOL)

kidding again.....anyone of us can take down your concerns and hopefully try to address them and I will be there all day and love to handle "issues"

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We started this thing with 19 classes. People were having trouble filling spots so we lowered it to 17 years ago. Now its down to 15. I really don't like this at all.

We as coaches need to do a better job getting kids out (myself included). My team has had forfeits the last couple of years. Most teams have had one or two per year. So it appears that the ISWA is just going to limit spots until everyone can fill a team.

I was asked to give an opinion (by a board member). Here is where I stand.... Do a better job filling teams and don't limit "opportunities"  for teams that have been doing a good job filling teams. Also.. If you give up a forfeit... tell your studs to go out there and get a pin and get your points back.

Also.. teams are building teams to win open duals tourneys (with kids from all over). So... when they have to go by the guidelines at state, they cant use their "hired guns" and cant fill teams. This is a BIGGEST reason for the forfeits. Sometimes it is not that they cant fill teams. It is the fact that they don't fill teams to meet state guidelines and the kids from their schools don't feel like a part of the team and don't go. Its a choice for some teams.

Don't like it.... at all.

 

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We (Indian Creek) host the Johnson County Elementary Duals tournament in December.  It is only for the five Johnson County schools, Indian Creek, Center Grove, Franklin, Greenwood & Whiteland. 

We modify the eligibility rules to allow ONLY "The members of each team must attend school within the SAME school district of which the participating club is located. Exceptions: Wrestlers who are home schooled or attend a private school outside your school district may also be considered."   NO WILDCARDS

In order to not penalize teams for not having a full line-up,  We modified the team scoring "Standard dual team scoring, with one exception. In order to not penalize teams for not having a full team lineup, if you do NOT weigh someone in at a weight class and you have to forfeit that weight class during a dual meet, the team receiving the forfeit will receive 3 team points instead of 6 team points. If you forfeit a weight class with no wrestler weighing in, you must forfeit that weight class for ALL dual meets in the tournament. If you weigh any wrestler in at a weight class and if you forfeit that weight class for any reason, the team receiving the forfeit will receive the standard 6 team points."

This will be the 6 year of the tournament and some far it has worked wonderfully....

 

 

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17 minutes ago, NSego said:

We (Indian Creek) host the Johnson County Elementary Duals tournament in December.  It is only for the five Johnson County schools, Indian Creek, Center Grove, Franklin, Greenwood & Whiteland. 

We modify the eligibility rules to allow ONLY "The members of each team must attend school within the SAME school district of which the participating club is located. Exceptions: Wrestlers who are home schooled or attend a private school outside your school district may also be considered."   NO WILDCARDS

In order to not penalize teams for not having a full line-up,  We modified the team scoring "Standard dual team scoring, with one exception. In order to not penalize teams for not having a full team lineup, if you do NOT weigh someone in at a weight class and you have to forfeit that weight class during a dual meet, the team receiving the forfeit will receive 3 team points instead of 6 team points. If you forfeit a weight class with no wrestler weighing in, you must forfeit that weight class for ALL dual meets in the tournament. If you weigh any wrestler in at a weight class and if you forfeit that weight class for any reason, the team receiving the forfeit will receive the standard 6 team points."

This will be the 6 year of the tournament and some far it has worked wonderfully....

 

 

Yep Neil, I see this system of scoring forfeits in duals that I have went to across the USA. I have also seen teams not enter a "lesser" kid on the roster to give up 3 points instead of 6. Really don't like changing traditional scoring either. Actually.... I'm not good with change as a whole (in most things). I guess it's just my nature. #OldSchool .

And really.. A kid that weighs 116 can wrestle a kid that weighs 175!!! I am positive that this was not considered. No Bueno.

Edited by Mattyb

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13 hours ago, Mattyb said:

Yep Neil, I see this system of scoring forfeits in duals that I have went to across the USA. I have also seen teams not enter a "lesser" kid on the roster to give up 3 points instead of 6. Really don't like changing traditional scoring either. Actually.... I'm not good with change as a whole (in most things). I guess it's just my nature. #OldSchool .

And really.. A kid that weighs 116 can wrestle a kid that weighs 175!!! I am positive that this was not considered. No Bueno.

Get out of my head Mattyb!  Totally agree.

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Is there a way to "dislike" posts yet ???    This is another perfect example of its needed use...... lol  and seriously @Justin Ratliff don't ever say that you were thinking the same way as @Mattyb ......smh

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3 hours ago, Justin Ratliff said:

I'm just wondering why I'm thinking like Pound sign TheCounty.  Is that how you do that thing? 😜

FYI... my wife was having lunch with the head wrestling coach at Hofstra (New York). He brought up TheCounty. Said we had some great wrestling here. Call it what you will. True story!!! 

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:40 PM, Mattyb said:

A kid that weighs 116 can wrestle a kid that weighs 175!!! I am positive that this was not considered. No Bueno.

wouldn't a responsible coach that is not trying to win at all costs not put his 116lb kid in this position by "bumping him up" to HWT if there was a significant weight difference issue ?.......... to that I say "No Bueno"  @Mattyb and @Justin Ratliff and if they did I would say shame on you then coach.

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2 hours ago, JMILL said:

wouldn't a responsible coach that is not trying to win at all costs not put his 116lb kid in this position by "bumping him up" to HWT if there was a significant weight difference issue ?.......... to that I say "No Bueno"  @Mattyb and @Justin Ratliff and if they did I would say shame on you then coach.

Really??? Cmon JMill!!! Kiddie coaches are crazy!!! 

It will happen. Just saying. And again... I doubt that was taken into consideration. Just bring back the 150 and this is not an issue (and no we have zero big guys right now at our club). Shouldn’t have changed in the first place.

In all seriousness the 150 needs to be brought back. The gap is too large. All my years doing this, I have never been to a youth dual where the gap between weights was 45 pounds. Just consider it for an old timer. 

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3 hours ago, Mattyb said:

Really??? Cmon JMill!!! Kiddie coaches are crazy!!! 

It will happen. Just saying. And again... I doubt that was taken into consideration. Just bring back the 150 and this is not an issue (and no we have zero big guys right now at our club). Shouldn’t have changed in the first place.

In all seriousness the 150 needs to be brought back. The gap is too large. All my years doing this, I have never been to a youth dual where the gap between weights was 45 pounds. Just consider it for an old timer. 

I believe the 2 years of data gathering, the 2 years of face to face coaches discussions, the more than 2 years of emails back and forth were all taken into account by the person in charge (Folkstyle development director) of this tournament and when the decision was brought to the board for a vote it was again all laid out there and it was a unanimous decision to change to the current model. 

I know this is personal to you since you were the inventing pioneer of this event (and of course thank you for that !!!), but with most things minor tweaks over time need to happen to stay current & marketable to the customers. 

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1 hour ago, JMILL said:

I believe the 2 years of data gathering, the 2 years of face to face coaches discussions, the more than 2 years of emails back and forth were all taken into account by the person in charge (Folkstyle development director) of this tournament and when the decision was brought to the board for a vote it was again all laid out there and it was a unanimous decision to change to the current model. 

I know this is personal to you since you were the inventing pioneer of this event (and of course thank you for that !!!), but with most things minor tweaks over time need to happen to stay current & marketable to the customers. 

Well.... did anybody bring up the 45 pound gap is weights? Oversite happens everywhere. I sat through enough ISWA board meeting to assume that this aspect was not brought up (I am just about certain of that). With that said, I would say that if it were brought to light that the weights may have been tweaked or at very least the vote would not have been Unanimous.

At very least, please bring up this very valid point up next meeting. I would suggest on of two things happen.

1. Bring back the 150 class.

2. Make the top weight class 131 to 175. No wrestler will be allowed to bump up to this weight class.

I do not like the second option. It would be an option to ensure that a kid doesn't wrestle a kid that is 59 pounds heavier.

BTW... stop messing with perfection. What's next.. changing my Heartland duals wrestle off format!!! LOL...

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