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FLO v. Track

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Instead of hijacking another thread...

What are your thoughts on Flo Wrestling vs. Track Wrestling?  Pro's and Con's...

My opinion is that Flo is on the rise and will derail track within 5 years.

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People said that 10 years ago about Flo.

 

They each offer their own unique niche to the wrestling world.

Flo is like the WWE Network, Fight Pass, etc. My personal frustration is FloArena (Sir Charles says it' turrrrrrrible) and the fact that it's harder to find college matches now b/c Flo locks it behind the paywall. 

 

There is zero comparison between Track and Flo in terms of tournament software, Track is the king and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. 

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Posted (edited)

Hijacking threads is what we they do!! But good on you for not doing it.

TW Pro is the single event purchase ability. I think it can be done on Flo but you gotta jump thru the hoop of cancelling or possibly paying for a whole month.

TW Con..and this seems to have come about since they were bought by NBC but the constant/persistent video ad interruptions that usually occur at the least opportune times. Before you could just click "continue" but now you have to watch a 15 second commercial (usually the same one) before you can proceed. Look, I get the need for ad revenue but when they were "small" it was just click continue but then when they get bought by BigBiz they intrude with video ads incessantly. I would be curious to see the "hit rate" on those things! Who buys to watch LittleJimmy wrestle, sees an Adidas video ad in the middle of his match and says "screw it, I need this shoe!!!" and clicks thru and away from the match? I'd rather just be charged an extra $2 per event purchase and not be subject to the video ad intrusion.

Another TW PRO is their twitter feed/info/articles seem to be better with regards to info/timeliness and don't link to articles that are hidden behind the subscription paywall when clicked..so far!!!

Edited by UncleJimmy
Stupidity

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1 hour ago, UncleJimmy said:

the constant/persistent video ad interruptions that usually occur at the least opportune times.

Would be interested to see if their customer satisfaction increased if these ads were run at the end of matches.  There is usually a short gap between matches and (at least for good matches) missing the first 15 seconds of a match is usually not that big of a deal...

I am not a computer guy, but I am assuming this is a programming hassle and they just set the ads to come up at certain time intervals.  I would think the ads could be linked to an action on the computer involved in bringing up a new match...

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Flo is the king of content. Their contributors are passionate, well-informed and prolific, across multiple mediums. They've also cracked the code of monetizing wrestling, to which i say congrats. They are #1 and there's not a close 2nd

That said, FloArena is horrid, and i love Track. No comparison 

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As Dingo said "Flo is the king of content". Between the mini-series, documentaries, highlights, etc. it is undeniable that they are the most consistent in putting out compelling content. They do monetize wrestling well and have earned that right.

However, as a former Flo-Pro subscriber, their product is far from perfect. Many times I was disappointed  by technical difficulties, unnecessary obstacles in browsing their site, and the poor product that is FloArena. I like Willie, CP, and Bader. They are good people and great wrestling media members. With that being said their is an undeniable aura of audacity that Flo as an organization carries about themselves. As a customer that suffered from numerous technical difficulties when it came time to watch an exciting wrestling event this aura of audacity was absolutely maddening.

As a result I'm pulling for Track. I hope Track is able to eventually provide enough competition to Flo to force Flo to improve their product (more so than they already have/do). I think Track is already doing this to some degree with how reliable their streaming service is (at least from my experience). Track has a ways to go in terms of producing content like min-series, documentaries, etc. that can compete with Flo's. At the end of the day strong competition means a win for us, the consumers, regardless of who 'wins'.

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Posted (edited)

Indiana has excellent coverage of their events on trackwrestling I have been told.  From a person who is outside of Indiana, I think they both serve a purpose.  Grandma wants to watch her grandson wrestle in a tournament - trackwrestling is made for that.  Low cost equipment, camera may or may not work, and if camera does work you aren't going be able to see most of the mat anyway ( again outside Indiana ).  You don't have to travel to see someone you know wrestle.  There's also a pretty good chance you will get your money back because you can prove you didn't get to see half the matches ( outside Indiana ). 

College level and beyond event with great production quality is Flo all day.  If you are really a fan of watching that level, you would cancel Netflix, premium cable channels, or any other service to afford it.  I know I would.

Edited by doctorWrestling

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I absolutely hate FloArena - it is awful on mobile, I just want to see the entire bracket at once. Not a fan of the overall dark design either... Track isn't much better tho, it feels outdated (like if you go from event search -> tournament -> results and then if you refresh the page your back at either the event search or the tournament listing instead of the results). Also a while back they were not storing passwords safely... (plaintext)

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2 hours ago, .02 said:

Would be interested to see if their customer satisfaction increased if these ads were run at the end of matches.  There is usually a short gap between matches and (at least for good matches) missing the first 15 seconds of a match is usually not that big of a deal...

I am not a computer guy, but I am assuming this is a programming hassle and they just set the ads to come up at certain time intervals.  I would think the ads could be linked to an action on the computer involved in bringing up a new match...

ding, ding, ding!!! Brilliant idea. You might not be a computer guy cuz you're too smart!! .02 should get a raise to .05! My thought was always instead of seeing the "this match is over" square pop up, that would be time for their 5 second ad. Like you say, the tablehelp hits the button for end of match, ad pops up. Watch @trackgopher take credit for all these brilliant ideas and get that huge promotion!!!

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1 minute ago, UncleJimmy said:

.02 should get a raise to .05!

I'm just trying to get In Mat to remove the 'content will need to be approved by a moderator' setting on my account.  I don't even want a raise...  Oooops, I'm starting to hijack my own topic.

1 hour ago, Dingo Brigade said:

Flo is the king of content.

True point here!  This is an area Track would really need to improve.  They are doing some small stuff with their interviews etc...

25 minutes ago, patriotfan said:

(like if you go from event search -> tournament -> results and then if you refresh the page your back at either the event search or the tournament listing instead of the results

This one of my pet peeves that seems like it should be reasonably easy to fix.  Basic navigation back and forth could be updated.

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52 minutes ago, UncleJimmy said:

ding, ding, ding!!! Brilliant idea. You might not be a computer guy cuz you're too smart!! .02 should get a raise to .05! My thought was always instead of seeing the "this match is over" square pop up, that would be time for their 5 second ad. Like you say, the tablehelp hits the button for end of match, ad pops up. Watch @trackgopher take credit for all these brilliant ideas and get that huge promotion!!!

*This is not a statement made by TrackWrestling or NBC SportsEngine*

TrackGopher is not a full time TW employee and truly does TW Support for the love of technology and wrestling.  I obviously have a bias on this matter, but also have a knowledge of what both platforms bring to the wrestling world.

Here is the issue...what .02 said is actually how it is supposed to work.  (Though in Indiana, I try to turn off all of the ads between matches when I am running the tournament. Though sometimes there is human error and sometimes I am not able to shut off the ad volume either (sorry again)) I do not see the production from a user side (I am typically the one running the tournament).  That segment is traditionally 15 seconds long and it is triggered by the user at the computer clicking save result on the matside controller.  Unfortunately we have situations where untrained table help does not select correct winners or winners at all and some issues do occur.  I know that TrackWrestling as a whole apologizes for issues like these!  They have worked quite hard to get as much wrestling as possible to as many people as possible.

If you guys do have more suggestions, feel free to let me know and I could pass them along.  I am not looking for a raise or promotion other than the promotion of our sport, but I do know Justin (CEO), Shane (COO), Tommy (Chief Developer), Ryan (Senior Support), and Tiffany (Senior Support) pretty well and they do typically listen when I or Mark Durham talk.  What I can say is that there will more than likely NOT be a season pass for TrackCast.  This is to ensure that the events are getting the money for their streaming.

I would love to talk to whomever about suggestions.  And hopefully you have all enjoyed the changes that have occurred over the years. 

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Posted (edited)

And to answer a question a question that some might have, if they know who/what I am about.  I am 100% for TW, but I am further 100% for wrestling in general.  I have watched events on Flo, their FloDocs are great.  I just would never use them.  But that is because I am who I am.  I do not hate anyone for using them.

Also one other thing to clear up, Track and Flo had a great relationship.  If you search Justin Tritz on Flo, you get an interview of the CEO of TrackWrestling.  There were some issues that occurred and Flo began Arena and the whole relationship ended.  There is much much much more to the story, but if anyone remembers events being on Flo for video and Track for administration it was working just fine. 

I am also more than willing to still run IHPO for Joe even though he is working with the dark side here.  (Hopefully I don't get thrown out again this year by a guy I have nothing but respect for).  In this instance, Joe believes that Flo has a better product and platform to show the world what Indiana has.  I disagree, but that does not mean I am right or Joe is.  No hard feelings there.

 

Last thing, if anyone is willing to teach me how to run a wrestling tournament, I would kindly accept that help.  I was told this year that I did not know how to run a wrestling tournament by a parent at Frosh-Soph State North Qualifier.  If that person wanted to show me how to run a wrestling tournament I would be more than happy to accept that training!  Just wanted to throw that out there.

-That nameless Portage guy that everyone has seen, but no one knows.

Edited by trackgopher

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, trackgopher said:

I know that TrackWrestling as a whole apologizes for issues like these!  They have worked quite hard to get as much wrestling as possible to as many people as possible.

I had purchased a TrackCast of Pre-Season Nationals (the one in Cedar Falls, IA) and had issues with my login.  I got immediate customer service and they fixed it before any of the kids I wanted to watch had even wrestled.  I was impressed with their prompt attention to this!

Speaking of Pre- and Post Season Nationals in Cedar Falls...  Does track have a contract with USAW?  One year I went as a coach to Post-season Nationals and they were real sticklers about Bronze Cert.  Whereas Flo doesn't seem to care at all, they just charge (a hefty) fee for a particular tournament...

Also, I think Flo really promotes themselves by highlighting the kids that compete.  Not sure if Track does this as well even when they have some extremely talented wrestlers competing in events they cover.

Edited by .02

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1 hour ago, .02 said:

I had purchased a TrackCast of Pre-Season Nationals (the one in Cedar Falls, IA) and had issues with my login.  I got immediate customer service and they fixed it before any of the kids I wanted to watch had even wrestled.  I was impressed with their prompt attention to this!

Speaking of Pre- and Post Season Nationals in Cedar Falls...  Does track have a contract with USAW?  One year I went as a coach to Post-season Nationals and they were real sticklers about Bronze Cert.  Whereas Flo doesn't seem to care at all, they just charge (a hefty) fee for a particular tournament...

Also, I think Flo really promotes themselves by highlighting the kids that compete.  Not sure if Track does this as well even when they have some extremely talented wrestlers competing in events they cover.

1st Paragraph: TW prides themselves on prompt and personalized customer service.  Sure there are FAQs for situations where the issue happens a lot and they just use that 'canned response' so to say.

2nd: TW no longer has a contract with USAW since NBCSE took over.

3rd: Andy Hamilton (Director of Wrestling Information or something to that effect) was hired to highlight more events.  They also have hired Eric Olanoski and a couple other sports journalists to cover more events.  This part of the business is getting off the ground, but they are not trying to compete on other things with Flo.  This year was the first time that TW went through the conferences and did conference and NCAA previews.  They will get better!

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3 hours ago, trackgopher said:

 

Last thing, if anyone is willing to teach me how to run a wrestling tournament, I would kindly accept that help.  I was told this year that I did not know how to run a wrestling tournament by a parent at Frosh-Soph State North Qualifier.  If that person wanted to show me how to run a wrestling tournament I would be more than happy to accept that training!  Just wanted to throw that out there.

-That nameless Portage guy that everyone has seen, but no one knows.

Wait.. You're that short little bald dude with the squeaky voice? I kid  ..I kid ...don't put me on blast Portage people!  I know that's leggin89!!!

To stay on topic since we're doing a really good job of that, I support TW.

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5 hours ago, UncleJimmy said:

ding, ding, ding!!! Brilliant idea. You might not be a computer guy cuz you're too smart!! .02 should get a raise to .05! My thought was always instead of seeing the "this match is over" square pop up, that would be time for their 5 second ad. Like you say, the tablehelp hits the button for end of match, ad pops up. Watch @trackgopher take credit for all these brilliant ideas and get that huge promotion!!!

The problem is, when you have the dashboard up for an event and there are 8+ mats going at once, there is ALWAYS a match ending

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9 minutes ago, SWINfan said:

The problem is, when you have the dashboard up for an event and there are 8+ mats going at once, there is ALWAYS a match ending

Right. Got ya, but the video just plays on the little box for that match and not the entire screen so the other 7 would still have the action until completed.

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27 minutes ago, UncleJimmy said:

Right. Got ya, but the video just plays on the little box for that match and not the entire screen so the other 7 would still have the action until completed.

Are we talking about the same video?  The video for me pops up on top of the dashboard and covers 60+% of it, making it impossible to see any of the match grids until I watch it all or hit skip which usually takes at least 5-10 seconds.

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Yep, that's the one. My idea is to have it play at the end of the individual matches (if you're watching the stick people) instead of the "this match is over" square that pops up. That way the advertiser would get more eyeballs too as it could come up 8 times at the end of those individual matches instead of just one random time  after a set number of minutes on the larger screen. 

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58 minutes ago, UncleJimmy said:

Yep, that's the one. My idea is to have it play at the end of the individual matches (if you're watching the stick people) instead of the "this match is over" square that pops up. That way the advertiser would get more eyeballs too as it could come up 8 times at the end of those individual matches instead of just one random time  after a set number of minutes on the larger screen. 

I thought that was my idea... and if you are watching video of a particular mat, then it plays the ad over the video.

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56 minutes ago, .02 said:

I thought that was my idea... and if you are watching video of a particular mat, then it plays the ad over the video.

Yep it was..wasn't stealing just reiterating ..darn auto correct didnt recognize .02 and changed to my!:D sorry...

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Competition is what makes you better. I use both. But I can remember when you could not get any university matches live unless you were there, let alone HS, matches. Look at how far this has gotten in the past few years. If you don't like to pay, you don't have to. 

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14 hours ago, SWINfan said:

Are we talking about the same video?  The video for me pops up on top of the dashboard and covers 60+% of it, making it impossible to see any of the match grids until I watch it all or hit skip which usually takes at least 5-10 seconds.

That is not what I thought you were talking about!  I thought you were talking TrackCast, and I apologize.  

Now for that, this match is over is triggered by the matside controller.  And the ads are ran on a x number of minutes interval.  Unfortunately, I am not sure if much is going to change here as that is what the Gold Membership fixes.

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