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Team State Vote-In Results

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4 hours ago, maligned said:

 

They just missed the vote-in process. Sadly, they forfeited a weight and had 4 guys not make it out of one of the thinner sectionals in the state. If they'd had one more guy make it to regional or had a warm body in that forfeited weight, they would have been in the vote-in discussion. It's true they beat Rochester head-to-head but remember scoring is heavily weighted toward returning guys and CA had 3 of their top guys graduate--meaning they bring back 10 compared to 14 starters from Rochester (I'm just speaking in terms of how scoring works...CA's incoming class could make them a force but that's not part of the scoring process.)

They would have been an amazing candidate, sadly, with all the credentials they've got coming in for next year. They'll be very good for the next few years it seems. We just don't have a fair way to consider incoming 8th graders, move-ins, etc. before the voting process, so you've got to get that far at least first.

Who do they have coming in next year?

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5 minutes ago, Clint Gard said:

Who do they have coming in next year?

I'll leave it to their people to share that info. I don't know how their enrollment process works in terms of making things official and I don't want to speak for them.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, maligned said:

It's true they beat Rochester head-to-head but remember scoring is heavily weighted toward returning guys and CA had 3 of their top guys graduate--meaning they bring back 10

I see your point.  CMA had some 'gaps' in their line-up (be that FF's or very novice wrestlers).  With the 3 seniors graduating there are some openings in the middle weights and still 2-3 spots in the lower weights and 1-2 spots in the upper.  So, I guess it will really depend on the incoming class and how they fill in.  In another post Sig40 indicated 5 new guys coming in from OH?  It will be interesting to see how they fall into the line-up among the returning guys. CMA will lose 3 Seniors next year as well who were 1 SSQ and 2 RQ from this season.

The lack of a feeder program is tough for consistency.

Edited by MOWrestler

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1 minute ago, MOWrestler said:

I see your point.  CMA had some 'gaps' in their line-up (be that FF's or very novice wrestlers).  With the 3 seniors graduating there are some openings in the middle weights and still 2-3 spots in the lower weights and 1-2 spots in the upper.  So, I guess it will really depend on the incoming class and how they fill in.  In another post Sig40 indicated 5 new guys coming in from OH?  It will be interesting to see how they fall into the line-up among the returning guys. CMA will lose 3 Seniors next year as well who were 1 SSQ and 2 RQ from this season.

The lack of a feeder program is tough for consistency.

Sorry, I didn't see that post. That's what I know too. 5 strong guys with legit credentials. I didn't know how openly it was being shared.

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2 minutes ago, maligned said:

5 strong guys with legit credentials. I didn't know how openly it was being shared.

I have not seen anything official either.  So I'm uncertain where the information comes from.  I did see in another post and on FB that CMA is beefing up their schedule as well.  This has been another challenge for the team over the years since they've had some really talented kids who truly need the competition, but also had 3-5 weights with really novice wrestlers.  Hard to have tournaments that meet the needs of both.

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12 hours ago, MOWrestler said:

Where did you find the numbers for these again?  I can't seem to find the old post with the team points.  I am a little surprised CMA was not in the mix for a vote-in.  They beat Rochester head to head in a dual last year (which I realize isn't a criteria and lost a close dual with New Prairie with a couple of kids out of the line-up d/t injury).  CMA must have had 9 RQ, with 6 SSQ, and 2 SQ.

Not doubting the calculations, just wondering.

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Now updated through state. The top 10 here will be invited to Team State soon. After bids are confirmed, teams 11-17 from this list will be sent team information sheets to fill out concerning their incoming talent and any other information about the potential ability of their team for next year.

* = injury points added; "Return" = number of starters returning next year from sectional lineup

Rank Class 2A Teams Score Return
1 Western* 220 11
2 Wawasee 215.5 10
3 North Montgomery* 195 11
4 Jimtown 180 11
5 Leo 172 12
6 Yorktown 163 6
7 Edgewood 162 11
8 Bellmont 159 11
9 South Dearborn 154.5 9
10 West Vigo 153 10
11 Southridge 151 10
12 Garrett 151 8
13 Rochester Community 148 13
14 Oak Hill 148 11
15 Delta 147 11
16 Hammond Gavit 140 11
17 Southmont 138 10
18 Gibson Southern 135 14
19 Madison Consolidated 132 10
20 Maconaquah 131 9
21 Culver Academies 131 10
22 Boonville 129 12
23 Greencastle 128 13
24 New Prairie 126 9
25 Monrovia 122 10
26 Heritage Hills 121 10
27 Lebanon 121 10
28 Lakeland 121 7
29 Franklin County 120 7
30 Peru 119 8
31 Calumet 118 8
32 Norwell 116 11
33 West Lafayette 116 8
34 Lawrenceburg 113 9
35 Rensselaer Central 113 8
36 Angola 112 7
37 New Haven 110 9
38 Indian Creek 109 8
39 NorthWood 109 10
40 Hamilton Heights 106 14
41 Columbia City 104 9
42 Manchester 103 13
43 Vincennes Lincoln 102 10
44 West Noble 102 9
45 Marion 100 6
46 Crawfordsville 98 10
47 New Castle 96.5 4
48 Evansville Reitz Memorial 94 7
49 Indianapolis Bishop Chatard 93 10
50 Danville Community 85 8
51 Wheeler 84 7
52 Benton Central 79 7
53 Twin Lakes 77 8
54 South Vermillion 73 10
55 Northwestern 70 9
56 Mississinewa 67 9
57 Pike Central 66 6
58 South Bend Washington 66 5
59 Sullivan 65 5
60 Guerin Catholic 65 7
61 Fairfield 64 7
62 Beech Grove 62 5
63 Rushville Consolidated 60 8
64 Frankfort 59 7
65 Greensburg 58 7
66 Mount Vernon 57 10
67 Griffith 57 10
68 Fort Wayne Concordia Lutheran 56 9
69 Tipton 54 5
70 Hammond 54 4
71 Scottsburg 53 8
72 Hanover Central 53 4
73 Glenn 52 8
74 Charlestown 51 9
75 Evansville Bosse 50 6
76 Brown County 50 7
77 Hammond Clark 50 7
78 Heritage 48 8
79 North Harrison 48 9
80 Owen Valley 47 6
81 Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter 46 7
82 Fort Wayne Bishop Luers 46 7
83 Northview 42 7
84 Woodlan 42 8
85 Batesville 39 8
86 Corydon Central 38 6
87 South Bend St. Joseph 38 8
88 Tri-West Hendricks 36 8
89 Salem 34 4
90 Western Boone 34 6
91 Princeton Community 30 6
92 Tippecanoe Valley 29 8
93 Eastbrook 24 5
94 Knox 24 2
95 Indianapolis Emmerich Manual 13 4
96 Speedway 12 4
97 Blackford 12 2
98 Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory 10 2
99 Gary West Side 8 3
100 Mishawaka Marian 5 2
Edited February 19 by maligned

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guys it is what it is.  Madison beat South Dearborn this year with two of our starters out of the lineup and we didn't make the cut.  This isn't a perfect system but its the best that we can do until the IHSAA grants extra weigh ins (which from what I hear will never happen) or the IHSAA reinstates team state.  My team has been on the cusp of making team state for several years and it sucks but in the end is our goal to get every team that deserves to be at state there (which I will say we typically can count that our top 10 teams in each class make the cut) or is it to find out the very best team in each class?

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19 minutes ago, tskin said:

is our goal to get every team that deserves to be at state there (which I will say we typically can count that our top 10 teams in each class make the cut) or is it to find out the very best team in each class?

I agree with you.  I think we get close on the top 10 and I think the system likely places the top 4-6 well.  After that there will always be arguments about the system or where the cut line should be.  From the standpoint of parity within a class, it is nice that there are teams from 15-25 that could still be competitive with teams who make the top 12.

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2 hours ago, tskin said:

guys it is what it is.  Madison beat South Dearborn this year with two of our starters out of the lineup and we didn't make the cut.  This isn't a perfect system but its the best that we can do until the IHSAA grants extra weigh ins (which from what I hear will never happen) or the IHSAA reinstates team state.  My team has been on the cusp of making team state for several years and it sucks but in the end is our goal to get every team that deserves to be at state there (which I will say we typically can count that our top 10 teams in each class make the cut) or is it to find out the very best team in each class?

I got to say this system is a lot more fairer than the IHSAA the previous team state system.   What about the old system when you had two top teams in the same regional,  then a top team in the state doesn't make it to the dual meet.   For example,  you  had Brownsburg and Avon in the same regional this year.  Since Brownsburg won the regional,  Avon would have been out?  You have top teams   At least this system puts in the best teams into the competition and it also puts the competition at a time that its not competing against the individual state tournament at the same time.    Now were arguing about whose 11th and 12th and most likely these last two team wont be much of a factor in the championship.   I don't care how you slice it,  there's always going to be a last guy out.

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I believe Perry Meridian was a vote in candidate just a few years ago and finished runner up. 

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27 minutes ago, Loki27 said:

I believe Perry Meridian was a vote in candidate just a few years ago and finished runner up. 

We (Churubusco) finished 1st in 2014 as a vote in, and last in 2016 as a vote in.  Its tough projecting who should get those last spots.  I can tell you it sucked being invited when we shouldn't have been in 2016.  I'm sure it would have been even worse though not getting in in 2016 when we had a championship team.  

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Why is there a vote in? If the formula is so good to determine the Top 10, why isn't it good enough for the Top 12?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, WadeDuPont said:

Why is there a vote in? If the formula is so good to determine the Top 10, why isn't it good enough for the Top 12?

I believe its mostly due to the fact that it can not take into account factors outside of the ISHAA tournament like injuries, in coming 8th graders who are varsity material, quality JV wrestlers stuck behind a stud Senior, ineligible wrestlers, etc....  While the vote-in panel can not always pin down how much those factors will contribute to a team success, the group at least tries to evaluate those factors rather than just leaving them out completely.

Edited by MattM

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Tried to resist, but can’t. Cathedral 2016-17 was 3rd in the IHSAA state and didn’t get invite or a write-in. And, as far as I am concerned, we’ll never get a write-in with the current system. I think Maligned and crew are doing a good job, but the write-in/committee might need to look at criteria differently. 

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21 hours ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Tried to resist, but can’t. Cathedral 2016-17 was 3rd in the IHSAA state and didn’t get invite or a write-in. And, as far as I am concerned, we’ll never get a write-in with the current system. I think Maligned and crew are doing a good job, but the write-in/committee might need to look at criteria differently. 

Wrong.  Cathedral was 3rd in points last year and had the autobid for New Castle.  They just elected not to attend team state.   See team points from last year.

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Scores now updated and finalized through state. A summary of the final results:

East Chicago automatic bid: Portage
Evansville auto bid: Brownsburg
New Castle auto bid: Cathedral
Fort Wayne auto bid: Carroll
Automatic wildcards (6): Avon, Merrillville, Columbus East, Mater Dei, Castle, Penn

Eligible for both vote-in spots: Roncalli, Harrison, Crown Point, Perry Meridian, Chesterton, Center Grove

 

Return = number of returning starters next season

* = injury or transfer points included
 

Rank  Score   Return Class 3A Teams

1          257.5   11        Portage

2          251      10        Brownsburg

3          230      11        Indianapolis Cathedral

4          217      11        Avon

5          213.5   10        Merrillville

6          209      14        Columbus East*

7          206.5   9          Evansville Mater Dei

8          199      11        Castle*

9          196      8          Penn

10        195      10        Roncalli

11        189.5   13        Harrison (West Lafayette)

12        189.5   11        Crown Point

13        188      10        Chesterton

14        184.5   5          Perry Meridian

15        183      10        Center Grove

16        170      7          Carroll (Fort Wayne)

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Posted (edited)

Those scores are for 2017-2018 Tournament, in which Cathedral chose not to attend after being snubbed for the 2016-2017 Tournament in the year they finished 3rd at the actual State Tournament.

Edited by XCard

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Posted (edited)

Just for clarity's sake:

2015-16: Cathedral ties for 9th at Team State and finishes 3rd at IHSAA state

(They then finished 11th in Team State qualification before losing out in the vote-in process for the 16-17 event)

2016-17: Cathedral finishes 3rd at IHSAA state again and finishes 3rd in Team State qualification, rejecting its automatic bid for 17-18

(based on season results and IndianaMat duals ranking, they finished as arguably the 7th best duals team in this 16-17 season, meaning they were a few slots better than their 11th-place Team State qualification score from the end of 15-16 that left them on the outside looking in)

2017-18: Cathedral wins IHSAA state and finishes 1st in Team State qualification, suggesting they're the favorite to win Team State in 18-19. They accept their bid.

(based on season results and IndianaMat duals ranking, they were arguably the 3rd best duals team in the 17-18 season, in line with where their qualification score at the end of 16-17 projected they'd be)

Edited by maligned

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Rochester beat Garrett this weekend at Maconaquah so that should end this discussion.

Sarcasm?  Rochester had 7 kids of 15 there that were from Rochester.  Garrett only had 10 of 15 from Garrett...Carroll had at least 4 FF's...Sarcasm...right?  Summer duals cannot be too indicative of the season unless all your kids do is wrestle.. We would not gotten on here and claimed anything otherwise had we won either...I wasn't able to be there, but I was happy to hear some of our individuals had good days...BUT the conversation is already over.   I have come to grips lol

Edited by nkraus

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