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Melloh and Mulkey

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7 minutes ago, GrecoISU said:

Now we've gone from calling out the integrity of the official to questioning the honor of the coach of the winning wrestler?  You guys need to really check yourselves. 

So are you confirming his alumni or involvement status to Cathedral?

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3 minutes ago, Powerline said:

So are you confirming his alumni or involvement status to Cathedral?

No, I'm telling you that you guys are ridiculous. I have no idea where he went to school 10,000 years ago (do you see how old he is?).

Did he improve the situation of the front headlock?  No. Case closed. Like it or not that call is one that is applicable. 

Edited by GrecoISU

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19 minutes ago, GrecoISU said:

Careful calling out the integrity of one of the most liked and successful officials in the state of Indiana. He's a great guy, has been around the block a time or two, and knows his stuff. 

Did Mulkey attempt to improve his positioning off of the front headlock? No. It doesn't matter if you agree fully with the call or not.  It's clear he didn't try to improve so stalling is something that can be called.  Could it have been called a stalemate? Of course.

Is he or is he not a Cathedral alumni and program supporter?

Its flat-out wrong, if the above questions about the ref are true, for that guy to be officiating a match with a Cathedral kid wrestling.  That’s not just common sense, but is also the ethical thing to do.

The main reason?  Because in a close match, no matter what, the ref giving “his kid” a mystery point to tie it up is going to have the appearance to many as homering the call...and costing a kid a state title and potentially an entire team a championship.

He could be the most ethical guy in the world, but you don’t put yourself in that position, period.

so yes, when the organizers and that official put themselves in that position then people are going to question it.

Edited by Kookie953

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Ok, obviously as I’ve posted before I’m new to the sport, but do try to know the rules...so I would like some clarity.

I thought snapping from a front headlock seems like improving to me?  Isn’t that taught?  I know it is to my 6th grader.

And arent rules different in 30 second OTs?  Been told a stalemate needs to be given before a stalling call in that situation? 

I’ll hang up and listen.

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21 minutes ago, GrecoISU said:

No, I'm telling you that you guys are ridiculous. I have no idea where he went to school 10,000 years ago (do you see how old he is?).

Did he improve the situation of the front headlock?  No. Case closed. Like it or not that call is one that is applicable. 

What’s his name?

 

So you are claiming intimate knowledge of how well liked & successful as a ref he is, but have no knowledge of his alumni status? 

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19 minutes ago, Kookie953 said:

Is he or is he not a Cathedral alumni and program supporter?

Its flat-out wrong, if the above questions about the ref are true, for that guy to be officiating a match with a Cathedral kid wrestling.  That’s not just common sense, but is also the ethical thing to do.

The main reason?  Because in a close match, no matter what, the ref giving “his kid” a mystery point to tie it up is going to have the appearance to many as homering the call...and costing a kid a state title and potentially an entire team a championship.

He could be the most ethical guy in the world, but you don’t put yourself in that position, period.

so yes, when the organizers and that official put themselves in that position then people are going to question it.

I wasn't able to make to state this year. I got a text from someone there telling me they thought Mulkey got hosed by the stall call. Knowing that Mulkey was wrestling someone from Cathedral, and having our team be on the receiving end of a questionable call involving this referee and Cathedral at state a number of years ago, I jokingly asked "Was Frankie refereeing?" I thought he was joking when the response was yes - I really had to ask again thinking it was a joke. Couldn't believe that it was actually true.

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1 minute ago, Powerline said:

What’s his name?

 

So you are claiming intimate knowledge of how well liked & successful as a ref he is, but have no knowledge of his alumni status? 

I sure am.  If you want his name, it isn't hard to find.  I have no idea his affiliations. 

My part of the conversation is over.  All I'm trying to do is bring the conversation back to the rules.  To me, he didn't look like he was trying to improve and that opened him up for a call like that.  Personally, I probably would have called a stalemate quickly. But who knows, I'm at home watching it on my computer and not one of the best officials in the state this year officiating the State Finals. Better believe I'm working on it though!'

Grab your pitchforks folks, it's looking like a witch hunt!

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3 hours ago, Kookie953 said:

Well this is even better.  Not only do the Irish get to openly recruit, they also got an official in the bag.

For the record, this is not a shot at Melloh, who wrestled his backside off.  But all the advantages for his school get tiresome.

And word on the street is that he’s not only a Cathedral supporter, but also an alumni.

I am assuming that everyone is talking about Frankie, I am sure of one thing he is an Irish Alum and as far as having a bias towards Cathedral I will beg to differ. I know that ALL my encounters against Cathedral and Frankie went in the school I was coaching at favor for the most part.; some of my kids were out wrestled, early in my coaching career at Howe.  Not to mention my athletes' were trained to "break the Cathedral mode" and wrestling a high paced style and keep them off the edge of the mat. This was before the new rules with scoring out of bounds. I can say that I have known Frankie my entire wrestling career as a wrestler and a coach and he is one of the BEST officials around.   

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7 minutes ago, Coach Brown said:

I am assuming that everyone is talking about Frankie, I am sure of one thing he is an Irish Alum and as far as having a bias towards Cathedral I will beg to differ. I know that ALL my encounters against Cathedral and Frankie went in the school I was coaching at favor for the most part.; some of my kids were out wrestled, early in my coaching career at Howe.  Not to mention my athletes' were trained to "break the Cathedral mode" and wrestling a high paced style and keep them off the edge of the mat. This was before the new rules with scoring out of bounds. I can say that I have known Frankie my entire wrestling career as a wrestler and a coach and he is one of the BEST officials around.   

Not in that match...

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54 minutes ago, Kookie953 said:

Ok, obviously as I’ve posted before I’m new to the sport, but do try to know the rules...so I would like some clarity.

I thought snapping from a front headlock seems like improving to me?  Isn’t that taught?  I know it is to my 6th grader.

And arent rules different in 30 second OTs?  Been told a stalemate needs to be given before a stalling call in that situation? 

I’ll hang up and listen.

If you rewatch the match, he snaps him to the mat but doesn’t make any attempts to score off of it (i.e. get to a point where he could secure a takedown). The casebook shows an example were this could be called stalling: 6.4a:

“Typical holds/maneuvers contributing to stalling in the neutral position are: 

a) Upper body tie-ups with no attempt to take down the opponent.”

Per the rulebook, overtime is just the continuation of the match (rule 7-2) so normal rules would apply. The difference would take place in the ultimate tiebreaker. The offensive wrestler scores here by preventing the defensive wrestler from scoring. So riding a spiral ride with no attempt to breakdown or turn the opponent shouldn’t be penalized.

The casebook does reference a similar situation for the stall call that would favor the Mulkey fans: 7.6.6 Situation B:

“Should stalling be called in the following situations? A) In a neutral position, Wrestler A attempts a takedown and is stopped by Wrestler B who applies a legal front headlock. Wrestler B does not use the headlock to attempt to score a takedown but maintains the headlock....Ruling: In [this situation] Wrestler B has created a stalemate situation to avoid being scored upon. Repeating the same action to create a stalemate situation without using it in an attempt to score would be stalling on Wrestler B.”

The question here would be did Mulkey snap Melloh into the headlock, or did he apply it in an attempt to defend a shot. If the later, than no stalling should be called per the ruling above (as it should have been called a stalemate the first time it happened). But if Mulkey initiates the front headlock, then I can see how a stall call could be argued. I also acknowledge that a simple stalemate could have been called as well. 

Edited by runner-up
Spelling and clarification. Typing out rules on a cell phone is pretty tough.

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I don’t know how each school trains, but we always prepare for not leaving it up to the referee. When Lance Rhodes was the coach, we did extra stand-ups every night at every practice because of “bad call”. We were taught to never leave a match in the hands of the referee. Never. Frankie is a great referee. A great man. Everyone can whine, but the tight match came out on the right side for the ☘️. 

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Quit bitching and moaning about the refs, and who they supposedly support. Yes Frankie is a Cathedral grad, but he hates the Irish because of Lance Rhodes. 

People have hated the Irish for years and will continue for many years to come.  Why,  because of success. People want to go there because of said success.  That school is self sustaining,  meaning zero help from the state or from the church,  it cost money to go there, so quit talking ***potty mouth*** about what you don't understand! Wrestlers should wrestle a dd not put matches in the hands of officials.  Just wrestle

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14 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

I don’t know how each school trains, but we always prepare for not leaving it up to the referee. When Lance Rhodes was the coach, we did extra stand-ups every night at every practice because of “bad call”. We were taught to never leave a match in the hands of the referee. Never. Frankie is a great referee. A great man. Everyone can whine, but the tight match came out on the right side for the ☘️. 

Hook and Half says you can't bring this to a discussion. 

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1 hour ago, Powerline said:

What’s his name?

 

So you are claiming intimate knowledge of how well liked & successful as a ref he is, but have no knowledge of his alumni status? 

He's a cathedral grad,  but not a supporter

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7 hours ago, littlevito said:

That should mean he has  to leave the building, right? If you get tossed?

no, he doesn't have to leave the building, he just cannot go onto the floor the rest of the tourney. i saw him back in the hallways, and told him that was a great call for a coach to get tossed out for. I cannot imagine another coach not losing his mind. in my opinion the right call would have been stalemate and go back to the center. that being said, bad calls are part of the sport, as with any other sport.

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