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davecloud

NFHS Survey--Please get this in ASAP

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Every head wrestling coach in the state should have received a survey from the NFHS. Please get this done as soon as you can so your input can be considered. It only takes 8-10 minutes. 

Dave Cloud

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2 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

What are the questions? 

Had a couple about dropping or changing weight classes. Those were the ones that stuck out to me the most. 

One about starting duals at 106 and run through 285, without drawing for starting weight. 

Some about what is to be enforced at weigh-ins.

Just a couple I could remember. Several others that seem a little our there.  Ill see if I can go back through and copy/paste.

 

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Found this elsewhere
1. Allowing weigh-outs after the first night of a two-day event.


2. Eliminating the random draw and returning to starting dual meets at the 106-pound weight class.


3. Mandating that all member high schools schedule at least four basic dual meets to revive local interest in high school wrestling.


4. Allowing referees to wear gray-and-black stripe shirts during the regular season.


5. Reducing the number of weight classes to an odd number and eliminating the tie-breaking procedure.


6. Re-aligning the existing weight classes.


7. Setting different weight classes for sub-varsity wrestling.


8. Giving the referee the discretion to call an unsportsmanlike conduct call after a determined number of cautions, which could then cause a disqualification.


9. Reducing the number of weight classes for dual-meet competitions, while keeping the same number of weight classes for individual tournaments.


10. Adjusting the descent-rate portion of the weight certification program to allow wrestlers to weigh anywhere within the 1.5 percent per week descent rate.

Example: A wrestler who weighs 200 pounds on Saturday can weigh anywhere between 200 pounds and 197 pounds for the next week. This will prevent coaches from having to deal with the .1 and .01 of a pound as listed on the official weigh-in report.


11. To discourage forfeits and the practice of ducking competition during dual meets, requiring schools to submit rosters prior to a dual meet which could not be changed once submitted.

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Is it just me, or do some of those questions make absolutely no sense.  Why in the world would any want different weights for sub-varsity wrestling or want different weights for duals than individual tournaments?

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30 minutes ago, doctorWrestling said:

Is it just me, or do some of those questions make absolutely no sense.  Why in the world would any want different weights for sub-varsity wrestling or want different weights for duals than individual tournaments?

There are currently many forfeits, and as Y2's recent forfeit data showed, the two biggest offending weight classes are 106 and 113. And the vast majority of varsity wrestlers at those weights are freshmen and sophomores. If we went to separate varsity and sub-varsity weights that better captured the size "demographics" of the kids (i.e. moving the lower weights higher and having an extra middle weight), it would allow teams to fill lineups better at the varsity level while still leaving an outlet for all the younger little guys who can't crack the lineup to have their place.

Example: Varsity moves to 110-117-122 as the first three weights while sub-varsity is 105-112-119. Maybe those freshmen 100-pounders can't crack the lineup at varsity 110, but they aren't getting outsized at JV 105.

For the duals vs. individual issue: again, we could include as many different-sized kids in the individual tournament question while making full lineups more of a possibility for duals.

Example: Individual weights start with 106-113-120 and end with 182-195-220-285 but duals drop 106 and 195. Then you only need to fill 12 weights for duals, you reduce forfeits, and you still keep all your most-skilled kids in the lineup (because your really good 106 still wins for you at 113 in duals and your really good 195 wrestles 220 or 285 for you in duals).

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22 minutes ago, maligned said:

Example: Individual weights start with 106-113-120 and end with 182-195-220-285 but duals drop 106 and 195. Then you only need to fill 12 weights for duals, you reduce forfeits, and you still keep all your most-skilled kids in the lineup (because your really good 106 still wins for you at 113 in duals and your really good 195 wrestles 220 or 285 for you in duals).

Couldn't doing this in week night duals wreak havoc on the weigh management system?  If your 106 is your best kid between 106 and 113 and the dual starts at 113 if he doesn't weigh in at 106 (or with in 1.5lb) for a dual during the week there is a good chance his weight for the weekend will not count as a qualifying weigh-in.

I know the simple solution is to just stay on weight but if you were a 106 wrestling 113 during the week what would you want to weigh?

Edited by bsisson

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The questions are really weird to start with and it seems some have an "agenda" such as the last one that prefaces the question with "to discourage forfeits."

As far as the weight changes, the only option I would add is maybe a 100lbs junior varsity weight and keep all the other weights the same. Having two different sets of weights for varsity level contests will just add confusion for the average fan or anyone for that matter.

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17 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

The questions are really weird to start with and it seems some have an "agenda" such as the last one that prefaces the question with "to discourage forfeits."

As far as the weight changes, the only option I would add is maybe a 100lbs junior varsity weight and keep all the other weights the same. Having two different sets of weights for varsity level contests will just add confusion for the average fan or anyone for that matter.

I totally agree I didn't feel like most of the questions dealt with any real concerns most wrestling coaches have.

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1. Allowing weigh-outs after the first night of a two-day event.
Who brought this up and why?

2. Eliminating the random draw and returning to starting dual meets at the 106-pound weight class.
Have coaches been complaining about this?

3. Mandating that all member high schools schedule at least four basic dual meets to revive local interest in high school wrestling.
Thought this was a done deal.

4. Allowing referees to wear gray-and-black stripe shirts during the regular season.
Refs....  is this a big issue?

5. Reducing the number of weight classes to an odd number and eliminating the tie-breaking procedure.
Why not increase by 1??

6. Re-aligning the existing weight classes.
How do you re-align the weight classes?

7. Setting different weight classes for sub-varsity wrestling.
This could be interesting and beneficial...

8. Giving the referee the discretion to call an unsportsmanlike conduct call after a determined number of cautions, which could then cause a disqualification.

Have refs been asking for this?


9. Reducing the number of weight classes for dual-meet competitions, while keeping the same number of weight classes for individual tournaments.

Is this to eliminate forfeits in duals??


10. Adjusting the descent-rate portion of the weight certification program to allow wrestlers to weigh anywhere within the 1.5 percent per week descent rate.

Example: A wrestler who weighs 200 pounds on Saturday can weigh anywhere between 200 pounds and 197 pounds for the next week. This will prevent coaches from having to deal with the .1 and .01 of a pound as listed on the official weigh-in report.

That pesky math....

11. To discourage forfeits and the practice of ducking competition during dual meets, requiring schools to submit rosters prior to a dual meet which could not be changed once submitted.

"practice of ducking competition" ....  did the state just call out the wrestling community??

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19 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:



11. To discourage forfeits and the practice of ducking competition during dual meets, requiring schools to submit rosters prior to a dual meet which could not be changed once submitted.

Am I reading this wrong, or would this not allow you to bump your line up around trying to get the best match up for a team to win a dual?

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59 minutes ago, AJ said:

 

"practice of ducking competition" ....  did the state just call out the wrestling community??

If the survey is from the NFHS, then it's national, not state.

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1 hour ago, AJ said:


1. Allowing weigh-outs after the first night of a two-day event.
Who brought this up and why?

2. Eliminating the random draw and returning to starting dual meets at the 106-pound weight class.
Have coaches been complaining about this?

3. Mandating that all member high schools schedule at least four basic dual meets to revive local interest in high school wrestling.
Thought this was a done deal.

4. Allowing referees to wear gray-and-black stripe shirts during the regular season.
Refs....  is this a big issue?

5. Reducing the number of weight classes to an odd number and eliminating the tie-breaking procedure.
Why not increase by 1??

6. Re-aligning the existing weight classes.
How do you re-align the weight classes?

7. Setting different weight classes for sub-varsity wrestling.
This could be interesting and beneficial...

8. Giving the referee the discretion to call an unsportsmanlike conduct call after a determined number of cautions, which could then cause a disqualification.

Have refs been asking for this?


9. Reducing the number of weight classes for dual-meet competitions, while keeping the same number of weight classes for individual tournaments.

Is this to eliminate forfeits in duals??


10. Adjusting the descent-rate portion of the weight certification program to allow wrestlers to weigh anywhere within the 1.5 percent per week descent rate.

Example: A wrestler who weighs 200 pounds on Saturday can weigh anywhere between 200 pounds and 197 pounds for the next week. This will prevent coaches from having to deal with the .1 and .01 of a pound as listed on the official weigh-in report.

That pesky math....

11. To discourage forfeits and the practice of ducking competition during dual meets, requiring schools to submit rosters prior to a dual meet which could not be changed once submitted.

"practice of ducking competition" ....  did the state just call out the wrestling community??

It's an NFHS survey--meaning it's national.

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2 hours ago, hogleg said:

Am I reading this wrong, or would this not allow you to bump your line up around trying to get the best match up for a team to win a dual?

That is correct, some people on a national board are saying that it will reduce forfeits and reduce the opportunity to duck a good wrestler. They also believe that the coin flip decides most dual meets.

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18 hours ago, warsawwrestling said:

Blocking weights for JV meets would be a better idea than using weight classes. This would get kids more matches, reduce byes, and improve tournament flow.

Now that makes sense in a lot of ways really.  I believe it would also discourage weight cutting.  I wish there were more concern about discouraging weight cutting on this national survey.  Michigan goes all season with day before weigh-ins for example.  Kids don't make a weight on the day they wrestle until conference or districts.  To me, this is just begging kids to cut more weight and eat all they want the night before.

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Question 10

 

id like to see the rule be something like "weigh anywhere in that weight class or above" but can't go down to the next weight class until your decent plan allows.

Example: a kid that wrestled 113 but can not weight below 112.1....every time he weighs 112.0 or less it is non-qualifying - all this kid did was wake up in the morning weighing less or peed, or whatever - but he obviously isn't trying to go 106 that day....and possibly maybe ever - but he keeps missing weight.

Id love to see the "calculator/spreadsheet" take real world into account that pizza eating/fluctuating teenagers sometimes just weight less and sometimes weigh more without cutting weight.  As long as they are withing their weight class Id like to see it count......just no dropping to the next weight until the plan allowed. 

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I think a rule that needs to be addressed is the "closing" of weight classes when weighing in for a dual. If a kid weighs in at 125lbs, but gets in with the 132's he can't wrestle 126. That is a dumb rule and in all honesty I doubt a ref would know if the kid weighed in with that particular weight class.

18 minutes ago, dstruck said:

Question 10

 

id like to see the rule be something like "weigh anywhere in that weight class or above" but can't go down to the next weight class until your decent plan allows.

Example: a kid that wrestled 113 but can not weight below 112.1....every time he weighs 112.0 or less it is non-qualifying - all this kid did was wake up in the morning weighing less or peed, or whatever - but he obviously isn't trying to go 106 that day....and possibly maybe ever - but he keeps missing weight.

Id love to see the "calculator/spreadsheet" take real world into account that pizza eating/fluctuating teenagers sometimes just weight less and sometimes weigh more without cutting weight.  As long as they are withing their weight class Id like to see it count......just no dropping to the next weight until the plan allowed. 

I do agree that the weight management plan needs to be a little more flexible as we are working with 14-18 year old kids and having them maintain their weight within a half pound, sometimes less is ridiculous.

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Just got this one from the NWCA, this has a lot more realistic questions on there

3. Do you support the following “out of bounds” rule proposal? 
From the neutral position, wrestlers are considered “in bounds” when one of the following occurs:
Both supporting points of one wrestler are in bounds (this is the current NFHS rule), OR
Each wrestler has at least one “supporting point” in bounds (a newly proposed addition to the rule).
Rationale: This does not extend wrestling in the out-of-bounds area of the mat and minimizes stoppage of action. *

4. Do you support the following “out of bounds” rule proposal?
From the “down position,” wrestlers are considered “in bounds” when the following occurs:
If the defensive wrestler’s supporting points are “out of bounds” and the offensive wrestler’s knees and feet are “in-bounds” regardless of whether the offensive wrestler’s knees are raised or on the mat.
Rationale: This does not extend wrestling in the out-of-bounds area of the mat and it simplifies the call for the official (with the current rule, it’s challenging for the official to simultaneously look for the fall while ensuring the offensive wrestler’s knees are on the mat).

5. Do you support the following proposed “weigh in” rule? 
All wrestlers, male or female, must weigh-in shoulder to shoulder in a competition singlet (or NFHS approved 2 piece uniform).

Rationale: With a growing number of female wrestlers across the nation, this rule significantly simplifies the weigh-in procedures for both genders. *

6. Do you agree with the following proposed “forfeit rule?” Yes/No
Eight (8) team points are awarded when the opposing team forfeits a weight class despite having weighed in at least one wrestler at that weight.  A wrestler may move up one weight class to cover what would overwise be a forfeit at the higher weight class without penalty.

Rationale: This rule will reduce the incidence of forfeits in our sport and will result in a more fan & media friendly sport. *
 

I answered
Yes
Yes
No- mainly for skin check reasoning
No- because if you weigh in a kid that is hurt to get weigh-ins for sectional you are going to use a forfeit that is 8 points. Will be hard to determine if a kid is hurt or not.

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