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Y2CJ41

2018 Sectional Forfeit Data

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I understand that, however, if we can get twice as many kids in the lineup in the middle weight areas wouldn't that be better?  Most 106lbers could still wrestle 110, and if they are too small it might take them a year to develop and they can wrestle JV.

 

And what Joe said, he just beat me to it

Edited by leaveitonthemat

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That is true. No sport does.

Other sports don't have weight classes either though.  We are the sport "everyone" can do.

I'm glad those small seniors have a place to wrestle, without the small underclassman all of them would have to bump up and be the tiny kid.

My 98lbs soaking weight wrestler, even if on JV wrestling, wrestling kids that weigh 115 would not be very encouraging to him.  Im trying to keep him convinced now that wrestling off-season at 100lbs will be much more fun for him - i hope.

I don't disagree with what you all are saying. I agree that it is mostly an underclassman weight class.  It is what it is.  Just as 220 and HWT have lots of seniors.  Im just saying I like that an undersized freshman, or even a senior, has a weight class for them.  For the same reason I am a fan of class wrestling - the small school can't help being small - i am a fan for keeping a weight class for the small kid - he can't help being small either.

Edited by dstruck

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Coach Struck,

I understand your position and don't necessarily disagree but something has to give.  The numbers don't lie.  Do you have an idea on how to deal with the FF issue?

I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm looking for answers and ideas.  Seems people get on here to argue and shoot down ideas but rarely offer up solutions.  I am open to opinions and want to discuss.

Clint

Edited by Clint Gard

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19 minutes ago, dstruck said:

 

.  For the same reason I am a fan of class wrestling - the small school can't help being small - i am a fan for keeping a weight class for the small kid - he can't help being small either.

I dont agree with this... an upper classmen can do a lot to put on healthy weight.  Lift weights, eat healthy, etc.  Raising 106 to 110-115 is a kid only adding 4-9 lbs.  

Now a freshman or even young sophomore might have trouble especially if they havent gone through puberty yet.  However you could always let that kid only wrestle kids who are comparable in size.  You cant tell me that a 95 lb pre-puberty freshman wrestling a kid who cut from 110-115 to 106 isnt going to be discouraging.

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25 minutes ago, dstruck said:

That is true. No sport does.

Other sports don't have weight classes either though.  We are the sport "everyone" can do.

I'm glad those small seniors have a place to wrestle, without the small underclassman all of them would have to bump up and be the tiny kid.

My 98lbs soaking weight wrestler, even if on JV wrestling, wrestling kids that weigh 115 would not be very encouraging to him.  Im trying to keep him convinced now that wrestling off-season at 100lbs will be much more fun for him - i hope.

I don't disagree with what you all are saying. I agree that it is mostly an underclassman weight class.  It is what it is.  Just as 220 and HWT have lots of seniors.  Im just saying I like that an undersized freshman, or even a senior, has a weight class for them.  For the same reason I am a fan of class wrestling - the small school can't help being small - i am a fan for keeping a weight class for the small kid - he can't help being small either.

My guess based on a little experience is those seniors are VERY big for the weight class.

We can always have a 100lbs or 106lbs JV weight class, there is nothing that says that can't happen.

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1 hour ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Do we need 14 weight  classes.  Back when I wrestled we had 12.    Maybe it would be easier to fill 12 classes.  Probably not great for really deep teams,  but maybe it evens the playing field for some decent teams and less forfeits.

It was a question on the new questionnaire that just came out to the coaches.

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Not for eliminating weight classes. Many very good seniors have wrestled 103/106. More weight classes, more participation.

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1 hour ago, Rookies03 said:

I dont agree with this... an upper classmen can do a lot to put on healthy weight.  Lift weights, eat healthy, etc.  Raising 106 to 110-115 is a kid only adding 4-9 lbs.  

Now a freshman or even young sophomore might have trouble especially if they havent gone through puberty yet.  However you could always let that kid only wrestle kids who are comparable in size.  You cant tell me that a 95 lb pre-puberty freshman wrestling a kid who cut from 110-115 to 106 isnt going to be discouraging.

HS kids cant put on more than 15 lbs of muscle in an offseason(with a few genetic exceptions) and most would be lucky to put on 10. Its hard to argue that weight gains beyond 10 lbs are "healthy weight" gains. I would suggest that near all 20+ lbs weight gains are increasing your fat ratio.

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3 hours ago, BigManWrestling1 said:

Then what is your solution? I was just throwing ideas out. We need a solution for the forfeit issue. There will always be forfeits but that data is concerning. Every weight class of every school won't have a kid in it, but with some tweaks I think that forfeits can be limited. 

Guess I don’t see a problem needing a solution. Why not count wrestlers who bump weight classes to avoid FFTs as FFT.  196 is 285, or 171 at 195 or any weight class for that matter.  Nobody bumps  to 106 and very few to 113,  Maybe use the actual weight at weigh in in comparison with this data? There were many times these bump up wrestlers might as well been a FFT. 6 is 6.

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1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

My guess based on a little experience is those seniors are VERY big for the weight class.

We can always have a 100lbs or 106lbs JV weight class, there is nothing that says that can't happen.

There are many very big for their weight class.  What does that have to do with 106? Fair at 120 is vey big for example. 106 is 108 for the tournament, so already tough on many.  I know of sr 106 that weren’t big for the class and never cut weight.  Heck, they could eat  breakfast and be under.

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36 minutes ago, Westforkwhite said:

HS kids cant put on more than 15 lbs of muscle in an offseason(with a few genetic exceptions) and most would be lucky to put on 10. Its hard to argue that weight gains beyond 10 lbs are "healthy weight" gains. I would suggest that near all 20+ lbs weight gains are increasing your fat ratio.

I agree with you... 15-20 lbs is not gonna be healthy weight for a 106 lb kid in one year but that's why I was saying 4-9 lbs.  I do agree that adding 9 lbs of muscle in an off season is even a bit of a stretch but not out of the question.  Especially for a Junior or Senior who eats correctly and lifts correctly (now a HS kid eating correctly is a totally different subject).  Also, if the weight class was increased then the undersized freshman has several years to put on that weight vs trying to do it in one season.  

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Anyone know if this is just an Indiana issue?  If it is more widespread, would the NFHS look into changing the weights again?

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its only natural for numbers to decrease as you go outward from the average

kinda like a turd thats tapered on both ends....delicious !!!

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What is very troubling is the number of gaps in the middle weights (138-160) for sake of comparison.   These are basically "walking around weights" for kids in high school.  Missing 234 opportunities in these classes seems more telling than not finding smaller or larger kids to fill the book end weights.   Let's face it,most schools have kids of average size (thus why its referred to as average) and fewer skinny kids...

I know for a fact many of the larger kids tend to be driven into the weight room for football off season, or that orange ball game they seem to like on the playground. 

 

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I’m against dropping weight classes but wish the survey would have asked about adding a class in the middle.

106, 113, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220, 285

15 classes would solve the criteria thing too. More opportunity, and if bet most schools could cover that middle class.

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1 hour ago, buscowrestling said:

I’m against dropping weight classes but wish the survey would have asked about adding a class in the middle.

106, 113, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220, 285

15 classes would solve the criteria thing too. More opportunity, and if bet most schools could cover that middle class.

I agree

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We aren't going to add a weight class with the participation down and forfeits up.

Eliminating a weight class is a bad idea because it would be extremely difficult to add it back later. 

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6 minutes ago, Y2CJ41 said:

We aren't going to add a weight class with the participation down and forfeits up.

Eliminating a weight class is a bad idea because it would be extremely difficult to add it back later. 

I don’t disagree with what you said. You’ve studied the data a lot more than me, would you predict there to be an uptick in forfeits if a weight was added in the middle?  I would think it could lower the total average if almost all the teams had the weight covered...

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10 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

Adding a weight class would increase the forfeits, we already have issues filling 14 weights, let alone 15.

I think if it is a middle weight, that argument goes away. There were multiple jv kids at every event we went to from 126-160. Not so much at upper and lower end weights. 

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Take your data and shove it up your ..... This sport is all the little guys sometimes have. Especially ones with some Napoleon Syndrome going on. I am still mad they increased it to 106.

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59 minutes ago, jetwrestling said:

I think if it is a middle weight, that argument goes away. There were multiple jv kids at every event we went to from 126-160. Not so much at upper and lower end weights. 

To your point, i wouldn't be opposed to moving 113 up a bit to mimic the gap from the prior weight classes. 103 - 112 is 9 pounds. Giving you 106 - 115 - 122 - 128 - 133 - 138 - 143 - 148 - 153 - 160 - 172 - 187 - 210 - Hwt. I think this would help FF numbers a bit by giving us an additional middle weight. 

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