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Perseverance

Football vs Wrestling....risk/reward

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To add onto other points being made, one I’ve not seen brought up would be the weight factor. Typically I’d say kids want to “beef” up for football season then transition straight to wrestling making their first weight cuts more difficult. Feel confident to say we’ve all seen some of the outcomes of weight cutting in mma recently. Maintaining is obviously key in that aspect and rapid cutting is not healthy at any age. 

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From the school or administrative perspective, I grew up at a small school and have coached at small, medium sized, and large schools and I can say without a doubt that trying to convince any kid to pick one sport over another is a dangerous precedent to set. Obviously for some, you could say it is the right move and I am not saying Silas should play football or not, but I know that if you take the wrestlers off the football team at most small schools, you start a war that you may not win.

If one wrestling team tells their kids they need to focus on wrestling and pull even just one key cog off of the football team, suddenly the football coach no longer wants to work with the wrestling coach and he starts convincing his kids not to wrestle because of "the weight cutting" or "skin conditions". You do NOT want to make an enemy with a football program, because they can decimate a wrestling team by pulling key upper weight wrestlers out of your lineup and hurting the team aspect of the sport. 

Picture this scenario: A 195 pounder that is a stud middle linebacker and state qualifier for wrestling is on the team. You also have football players filling 160, 170, 182, 220, and 285 with very little behind them because you are a small school with limited athletic options. The Middle Linebacker shows a lot of promise and somebody convinces him to focus on wrestling. That takes a key piece away from a football coach that may lose his job if he doesn't win ballgames (a harsh reality in football and basketball). Some coaches, the greats, I'm sure, would rise above and nothing would come of it. The 195 pounder may go on and be state champ and get a college scholarship. But oftentimes, the football coach resents the wrestling program for that and you start to see that key 8th graders that were going to fill holes in your lineup the next year decide they want to play football and focus on that. A couple upperclassmen come to you and say "I just don't think it's for me any more" or "I wanna focus on lifting in the winter." Suddenly a small school that may have had a full lineup starts seeing holes in the upper weights. And make no mistake, this happens at large schools too.

In program building, we unfortunately are in the sport that does not attract the large numbers of athletes. Many kids see Friday Night the whole lives growing up and dream about playing on that field in front of the crowd. If we force kids to choose, we may not like what they choose.

 

Obviously, this bears little over Silas' decision as you have to do what's best for your child and this does not account for possible injuries (those certainly happen in football), but I just wanted to throw my two cents out there.

 

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6 minutes ago, Coach Brobst said:

From the school or administrative perspective, I grew up at a small school and have coached at small, medium sized, and large schools and I can say without a doubt that trying to convince any kid to pick one sport over another is a dangerous precedent to set. Obviously for some, you could say it is the right move and I am not saying Silas should play football or not, but I know that if you take the wrestlers off the football team at most small schools, you start a war that you may not win.

If one wrestling team tells their kids they need to focus on wrestling and pull even just one key cog off of the football team, suddenly the football coach no longer wants to work with the wrestling coach and he starts convincing his kids not to wrestle because of "the weight cutting" or "skin conditions". You do NOT want to make an enemy with a football program, because they can decimate a wrestling team by pulling key upper weight wrestlers out of your lineup and hurting the team aspect of the sport. 

Picture this scenario: A 195 pounder that is a stud middle linebacker and state qualifier for wrestling is on the team. You also have football players filling 160, 170, 182, 220, and 285 with very little behind them because you are a small school with limited athletic options. The Middle Linebacker shows a lot of promise and somebody convinces him to focus on wrestling. That takes a key piece away from a football coach that may lose his job if he doesn't win ballgames (a harsh reality in football and basketball). Some coaches, the greats, I'm sure, would rise above and nothing would come of it. The 195 pounder may go on and be state champ and get a college scholarship. But oftentimes, the football coach resents the wrestling program for that and you start to see that key 8th graders that were going to fill holes in your lineup the next year decide they want to play football and focus on that. A couple upperclassmen come to you and say "I just don't think it's for me any more" or "I wanna focus on lifting in the winter." Suddenly a small school that may have had a full lineup starts seeing holes in the upper weights. And make no mistake, this happens at large schools too.

In program building, we unfortunately are in the sport that does not attract the large numbers of athletes. Many kids see Friday Night the whole lives growing up and dream about playing on that field in front of the crowd. If we force kids to choose, we may not like what they choose.

 

Obviously, this bears little over Silas' decision as you have to do what's best for your child and this does not account for possible injuries (those certainly happen in football), but I just wanted to throw my two cents out there.

 

Really appreciate your perspective and insight.  You make great points towards the importance of it being imperative for coaches to try to work together for the good of their perspective programs.....but even more so for the good of the student athlete.  Fortunately, I have open dialogue with our football coach, he's aware of Silas' future on the mat, and listens to the concerns of the parents and other coaches closely. He's a real good dude, simply stated.  He won't want to lose Silas, and I'm sure would be agreeable to him just playing defense.....as well as potentially sitting out certain games when not necessarily needed.  The biggest challenge I see is the allotment of time away for certain tournaments.  Most notably Super 32, and to support our own wrestling family at  IHPO.

Im all for multi-sport athletes.  It trains them into well rounded young men/women athletically......and most importantly in my opinion, helps them deal with different types of athletic adversity.  However.....I also take the stance that there comes a certain time when your future in athletics unfolds.  And if a young athlete is fortunate enough for that to happen.  They need to make some tough choices.  This is also part of the mental adversity they'll face in life regarding decision making.  So in my opinion, regardless of the sport.......if an athlete has been given indication by their performance, high school/college coaches and or scouts/recruiters, that they have a forseeable future in a perspective sport.....it's likely time to begin putting added emphasis on that direction of your life if it's something they're passionate about and align with their personal goals. Especially when factoring in being only 2 yrs away from an "official" college choice.  

I find it almost contradictory, that so often we as parents and coaches are wanting/telling our kids to grow up and make more adult choices.......then when they are face to face with decisions that can directly affect their lives as adults, we resort back to "just be a kid and play".  Let's face it.....as it pertains to early recruiting, the sophomore year is a valuable one.  Junior year.....imperative.  No athlete whose serious about taking their craft to the next level wants to go into their senior season without a definitive gameplan, and pretty good idea about the narrowed down list of schools he/she is going to sign with.  Again......I must stress, everything I've voiced is just my opinion.  I don't have all the answers, and I've found many of everyone's input very helpful in gaining added perspective to both sides of Silas' decision making.  As well as my own.

I was reluctant to share this final bit of info....but I feel it's pertinent and may help give us all more clarity.  Silas was blessed to be able to hear from Olympic Champ and defending NCAA Nat Champ Kyle Snider yesterday about this very topic.  Incredibly humble young man to say the least.  Ironically, he was faced with the same decision Silas' is now entertaining at the exact same time in his life.  He chose to just wrestle because it outweighed the thoughts of memories on the football field, even though it was a sport he had played his whole life.  Ultimately.....he chose his "future".  This obviously was the right decision FOR HIM.  He voiced much of what all of us have, and much of what others who care for and train Silas has echoed......It's his choice.  No decision is the wrong one.  But to continue to realize that with wrestling as his future......proper rest for his body, smart choices to stay healthy and continued development on the mat is absolutely necessary.  

At this point.....I'm having Silas put any and all thoughts of making a choice FAR behind him.  Right now....he just needs to focus on getting healthy to return to the mat, and chasing his personal goals this year in-state, as well as nationally.  He has plenty of time to process all the info and advice that's been given him, reflect, internalize, pray on things......then do what he feels is best for him. Thanks to everyone again for all the great feedback.  Rest assured, I'll support my sons decision regardless.  But as for now......it's wrestling season!!! :)

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4 hours ago, navy80 said:

Is there anything Silas is not good at? Lol

Oh yeah......specifically keeping his room clean and making sure firewood is split and stacked!!! :)

 

But in all seriousness.....there's still plenty of imperfections and things he's "not good at".  Even as it pertains to wrestling.  Reality is, even our top wrestlers in Indiana like Paris, B-Lee & J-Lee have tons of things they still have to get better at before they'll be able to even be extremely competitive at the next level.  That reality in itself, is partly what drives my zeal towards the importance of certain decisions.

 

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The only person whose opinion matters here is your sons. If you support him in whatever that decision is then you are being the father he needs.

Life is short and if your son is truly the one that makes the decision, then he likely will not have regrets. But if his decision is what he thinks you want...

You are obviously a concerned parent. Just be careful with the influence you have, that's all I'm saying.

Edited by SIACfan

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1 hour ago, SIACfan said:

The only person whose opinion matters here is your sons. If you support him in whatever that decision is then you are being the father he needs.

Life is short and if your son is truly the one that makes the decision, then he likely will not have regrets. But if his decision is what he thinks you want...

You are obviously a concerned parent. Just be careful with the influence you have, that's all I'm saying.

I'm in agreement with you for the most part.  And again.....it's his decision alone. However....to say that other opinions outside of his don't matter, I can't embrace.

As parents/coaches we have the unique opportunity to also be mentors to many young men & women.  This entails teaching them aspects of life that often go beyond athletics.  Being in these positions, we have the responsibility to assist these young athletes with certain decisions.  "Assist" mind you.....not "lead" or "influence" based on what WE may feel the best choice may be.  So with that said......it's imperative student-athletes have a panoramic, well rounded view of certain choices they make.  Especially when factoring in ones future.  In my opinion, too many young athletes are left to fend for themselves in adult choices.  In turn, they're often swayed by peers.  This has led to many poor choices.  So it's VERY important young men/women listen carefully to all those whose been in their position.  Then make the best decision they personally feel will benefit their own happiness, without being a detriment to their future goals.  

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Me personally was good with it, when my son quit football. With that said... I did give him some advice. I told him that he only has one shot at high school. If you have the slightest desire to do something then do it! If you want to play football.. play it. If you think a girl is pretty and nice... then ask her out! Don’t walk out of that school with your cap and gown on, and have any regrets. 

Edited by Mattyb

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14 hours ago, Perseverance said:

I'm in agreement with you for the most part.  And again.....it's his decision alone. However....to say that other opinions outside of his don't matter, I can't embrace.

As parents/coaches we have the unique opportunity to also be mentors to many young men & women.  This entails teaching them aspects of life that often go beyond athletics.  Being in these positions, we have the responsibility to assist these young athletes with certain decisions.  "Assist" mind you.....not "lead" or "influence" based on what WE may feel the best choice may be.  So with that said......it's imperative student-athletes have a panoramic, well rounded view of certain choices they make.  Especially when factoring in ones future.  In my opinion, too many young athletes are left to fend for themselves in adult choices.  In turn, they're often swayed by peers.  This has led to many poor choices.  So it's VERY important young men/women listen carefully to all those whose been in their position.  Then make the best decision they personally feel will benefit their own happiness, without being a detriment to their future goals.  

I agree with you as well. All adults who have relationships with young people have the opportunity to be mentors & to help guide these individuals make informed decisions.

Let me ask a question & I'm not trying to suggest or insinuate anything here. Did your son start wondering whether or not he should be playing football or did this originate from you?

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What is the real likelihood that a high school wrestler will receive a full ride to college that they need to even consider being a one sport athlete? 

What is the real likelihood that a high school football player will receive a full ride to college that they need to even consider being a one sport athlete? 

 

If adults really did not want to sway them one way or another they would just stay away from the discussion altogether.

Edited by jmills

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If the concern of this post is simply scholarships, then how about having your son/daughter focus on studies?  No injury there.  If they are successful enough in a sport to warrant a scholarship; great!  If not, no sweat. They will have already been building towards a more sustainable endeavor.  As much as we love watching our children play sports, most of them will not be doing it later in life.  If your child has already passed the threshold for an academic opportunity then adjust for your younger children to focus on academics.

Edited by Justin Ratliff

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This response is collectively for the last 3 comments.  While I realize it's quite a bit to read (apologies).....prior comments either answer your questions, or nullify your point altogether.  

As in my initial comment on this thread......the thought of not playing football altogether was in fact the crossroads I was at regarding whether or not to "encourage".  However....my encouragement 100% of the time is for my son to work towards being the best version of himself possible.  So if that means continuing to play (yes, even both sides of the ball)....Ill support him.

 

In regards to the "full ride scholarship" Jason......not once has that been mentioned. It has less to do with "scholarships", and more to do with Silas accomplishing HIS goals.  

 

In in regards to the education comment by Mr. Ratliff.  I would highly agree if it was fitting for my son.  In fairness to you not being aware, and not thoroughly reading previous comments (again, I understand they're lengthy)....Silas has a 4.3 G.P.A.  In fact, the schools that have expressed the most early interest (all within the parameters of NCAA guidelines) have been Ivy League programs and other high level academic institutions with solid programs.  

 

That leads me to my final point.  This has nothing to do with MY wants for my son.....outside of him accomplishing his goals.  In fact....to further my above comment, Silas is also a part of 21st Century Scholars.  With that said....if he chooses to stay "in-state" to wrestle post high school.....most of tuition will be taken care of with out an athletic dept. having to utilize coveted scholarship money as it pertains to wrestling.  His academic prowess along with athletic opportunity will certainly take care of much of the rest.  What (if any) is left over.....student loans and grants will be very helpful. 

Although I feel this shouldn't need said....the previous comments warrant it......I want what's best for my son.  And anyone who knows Silas, will attest that he is a very happy, jovial, driven, promising young man.  Knowing him as I do......that also means helping along the way to remain that way, and again, "assist" him in accomplishing HIS goals.  If this were about my wants, desires, etc.,....he'd have never stopped playing baseball. That's my background and he had enough talent in 8/9th grade to warrant a spot on many small college teams.  But that wasn't HIS desire!  His goals are to not just be State Chamion.....but also National Champion.  To be recruited by top 5 programs, compete internationally, etc.  So it should be readily apparent that with those type of goals.....you better be willing to make some tough choices, commit yourself in a way that borderlines obsession....and buckle up for a ride of extreme highs, and humbling lessons. And mind you.....we're talking about a young man who has the athletic upside to accomplish those goals barring "injury", or simply falling short even after giving his best effort.

So with that said.....I encourage you to recognize those realities.  And no.....I don't want my son carrying the football 25 times a game and never leaving field on defense.  Especially after wrestling 9 months and considering he has no interest of playing it past high school.  When can he rest?  So moving forward.....I respectfully, and dig down deep to HUMBLY ask, that you please express your opinions with a certain level of respect and tact.  Not assuming, slick talking for likes, or referencing things your uninformed of.  Not only are those things flirting with being offensive.  I also am seasoned enough to recognize motive behind certain statements that are cloaked with the appearance of wanting more info.....or full fledge "if an adult.....".   I will not say again....Its HIS choice.  And I support my son regardless.  I prefer no longer speaking on the matter due to the direction it has begun going.  He has 9 months left of wrestling season before he needs to decide to just play defense, not play at all, or continue doing both.  And I'll remain his strongest supporter no matter what.  Take care gentlemen.  Thx again for all the feedback.  Have a safe, and successful season.....and I look forward to seeing many of you mat side soon. 

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I apologize if I have offended you in any way. I can assure you it was not my intention. I do not know you &/or your son but I am aware of his accomplishments on the wrestling mat. It is obvious you are a caring father who only wants the best for his son.

Any comments I have made where only intended to get you to think. Given your last post, it appears your son knows what he wants & is very committed to achieving his goals. But it also seems as if he has decided that playing football for his high school is something he wants to do as well.

I would never dream of telling someone how to parent their children, but I will remind you of what you stated in your opening post:

" And in this case.....regardless of whether your a parent, coach, or both......your feedback and opinions are welcomed. "

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Perserverence,

I don't think anyone on here was intending to offend you.  I think they were only trying to give you the feedback that you ask for.  You wanted opinions from others' perspectives and they generously provided it.  

That doesn't mean you have to agree with it all or follow any of it.  But at least you now have more input than you had before.   And for that I think you should be grateful.

But more than that, be grateful that you have such a fine son who is multi-talented enough to have choices that DO have to be made. 

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22 hours ago, Perseverance said:

This response is collectively for the last 3 comments.  While I realize it's quite a bit to read (apologies).....prior comments either answer your questions, or nullify your point altogether.  

As in my initial comment on this thread......the thought of not playing football altogether was in fact the crossroads I was at regarding whether or not to "encourage".  However....my encouragement 100% of the time is for my son to work towards being the best version of himself possible.  So if that means continuing to play (yes, even both sides of the ball)....Ill support him.

 

In regards to the "full ride scholarship" Jason......not once has that been mentioned. It has less to do with "scholarships", and more to do with Silas accomplishing HIS goals.  

 

In in regards to the education comment by Mr. Ratliff.  I would highly agree if it was fitting for my son.  In fairness to you not being aware, and not thoroughly reading previous comments (again, I understand they're lengthy)....Silas has a 4.3 G.P.A.  In fact, the schools that have expressed the most early interest (all within the parameters of NCAA guidelines) have been Ivy League programs and other high level academic institutions with solid programs.  

 

That leads me to my final point.  This has nothing to do with MY wants for my son.....outside of him accomplishing his goals.  In fact....to further my above comment, Silas is also a part of 21st Century Scholars.  With that said....if he chooses to stay "in-state" to wrestle post high school.....most of tuition will be taken care of with out an athletic dept. having to utilize coveted scholarship money as it pertains to wrestling.  His academic prowess along with athletic opportunity will certainly take care of much of the rest.  What (if any) is left over.....student loans and grants will be very helpful. 

Although I feel this shouldn't need said....the previous comments warrant it......I want what's best for my son.  And anyone who knows Silas, will attest that he is a very happy, jovial, driven, promising young man.  Knowing him as I do......that also means helping along the way to remain that way, and again, "assist" him in accomplishing HIS goals.  If this were about my wants, desires, etc.,....he'd have never stopped playing baseball. That's my background and he had enough talent in 8/9th grade to warrant a spot on many small college teams.  But that wasn't HIS desire!  His goals are to not just be State Chamion.....but also National Champion.  To be recruited by top 5 programs, compete internationally, etc.  So it should be readily apparent that with those type of goals.....you better be willing to make some tough choices, commit yourself in a way that borderlines obsession....and buckle up for a ride of extreme highs, and humbling lessons. And mind you.....we're talking about a young man who has the athletic upside to accomplish those goals barring "injury", or simply falling short even after giving his best effort.

So with that said.....I encourage you to recognize those realities.  And no.....I don't want my son carrying the football 25 times a game and never leaving field on defense.  Especially after wrestling 9 months and considering he has no interest of playing it past high school.  When can he rest?  So moving forward.....I respectfully, and dig down deep to HUMBLY ask, that you please express your opinions with a certain level of respect and tact.  Not assuming, slick talking for likes, or referencing things your uninformed of.  Not only are those things flirting with being offensive.  I also am seasoned enough to recognize motive behind certain statements that are cloaked with the appearance of wanting more info.....or full fledge "if an adult.....".   I will not say again....Its HIS choice.  And I support my son regardless.  I prefer no longer speaking on the matter due to the direction it has begun going.  He has 9 months left of wrestling season before he needs to decide to just play defense, not play at all, or continue doing both.  And I'll remain his strongest supporter no matter what.  Take care gentlemen.  Thx again for all the feedback.  Have a safe, and successful season.....and I look forward to seeing many of you mat side soon. 

wrong person Erik, not sure who this JMILLS is but its not me man. 

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