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Johnathan Spencer

Frosh-Soph State Championships

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It is sponsored by the ISWA, so it would follow under the USA Wrestling system.  Which is why you would need a USA Wrestling card to participate for insurance reason.  It is not affiliated with the IHSAA.

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Ft. Wayne was well attended!! 280 wrestlers. We finished wrestling at 9 o'clock and their were still weight classes wrestling! Think it is a cool opportunity for the freshman and sophomore to get another crack at qualifying for a state tournament! Maybe some more mats next year??

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It was a great event. The one change I would want would be a location change for the south qualifier, perhaps to Bloomington?  At the moment with it in Evansville 3/4 of the teams in the state are closer to Ft Wayne than Evansville. Which leads to the obvious issue of 280 wrestlers at one qualifier and 130 at the other. 

A south qualifier that is more central to the southern half of the state could make this less of an issue. I do see the benefit to hosting it at the semi-state sites but I feel like finding a gym to host in Bloomington shouldn't be too difficult and theres no way rental costs would end up being as much as it is to rent out the ford center.

Like I said, a great event. Just my two cents.

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I simply think they were trying to take advantage of the fact you already had lots of wrestlers and teams at the SS site and felt that would make it easier.  No way to know if location was a bigger problem than lack of promotion (we don't know how well it was promoted in local areas) or that it was on the same day as Middle School State.

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Here is the trackwrestling link to the breakdown of numbers @ each tournament: 

North-

http://www.trackwrestling.com/opentournaments/VerifyPassword.jsp?tournamentId=256514009

 

South-

http://www.trackwrestling.com/opentournaments/VerifyPassword.jsp?tournamentId=256516009

 

As stated above, there was a significant imbalance in participation 278:128.  The North had all but 1 weight class with 12+ wrestlers with 220 having only 9.  In the South, only 4 weight classes had more than 10 kids.

 

Regardless- a great opportunity for those young guys to keep going.  I applaud the efforts taken to get this going!

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I simply think they were trying to take advantage of the fact you already had lots of wrestlers and teams at the SS site and felt that would make it easier.  No way to know if location was a bigger problem than lack of promotion (we don't know how well it was promoted in local areas) or that it was on the same day as Middle School State.

 

i get the benefit of using the semi-state sites. I just feel those benefits are outwayed by the issue of Evansville being nowhere near a central location for the south. Increasing promotion will certainly drive up the total numbers in the future but I don't see any reason that increased promotion would cause the two qualifiers to become more balanced. 

Every school that goes to EC, FW, and NC semi-state is closer to Fort Wayne than evansville. Heck, most of the schools from the Mooresville regional are closer to Fort Wayne. 

If you move the southern qualifier to Bloomington though, that would do a pretty good job of splitting the state equally north and south, as most of NC and all of evansville will be closer to Bloomington while all of FW and EC will be closer to Fort Wayne.

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How many from each weight class qualify for the State tournament in 2 weeks?

12 from each qualifier plus any semi-state or state qualifiers that don't win on Friday night.

 

The flier says they will run a 32 man bracket at southport.

Edited by ScrambledLegs

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I would suggest that they add more mats if they have this at Ft.Wayne next year. It was a long day, did not get out of there until almost 9:30 last night , with an hour and a half drive. But all in all it was a good venue, with lots of great wrestling. They also might want to think about an earlier start than 1100, that didn't help matters either. 

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One problem we came across as a small program and us still being in season. Was who would coach our kids if they went ? High School coaches can't coach in season on Sunday - we weren't sure since we still have a wrestler competing this weekend if it would be an issue. Our club coaches and middle school coaches are also High School coaches. Ultimately we didn't send any kids anyway - but that was a concern when we were discussing sending them. Anyone have a clear understanding of that rule ? Thanks

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One problem we came across as a small program and us still being in season. Was who would coach our kids if they went ? High School coaches can't coach in season on Sunday - we weren't sure since we still have a wrestler competing this weekend if it would be an issue. Our club coaches and middle school coaches are also High School coaches. Ultimately we didn't send any kids anyway - but that was a concern when we were discussing sending them. Anyone have a clear understanding of that rule ? Thanks

Many Head Coaches were there and coaching...not sure where the miscommunication lies, but several of the states best were doing what they do..."putting the time in."

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I agree with changing the south location. We're roughly 4 hours from evansville and 3 from FW. Its hard to get commitment for 6-8 hours of traveling during the school year. Also I too would like to know the ruling on in season high school coaches coaching this event.

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There is no miscommunication. Rules 9-11,9-12, 9-13, 9-14 Sunday coaching , activities and athletic contest are prohibited.

 

May Schools hold or sanction Sunday Practices or interschool Contests?

No, neither member School nor their students may participate in Contests, Practices or clinics on Sunday. (rule 9-13)

May a member of a high school coaching staff in a sport give lessons on Sunday, during the Authorized Practice or Contest Season, to a student who is on a team in that sport?

No, a member of a high school coaching staff may not give lessons to any member of the team on Sunday. (rule 9-13) For example, a tennis coach on the high school coaching staff, who also provides individual or group tennis lessons at the local tennis facility, may not give lessons on Sunday to any member of the tennis team during the Authorized Practice or Contest Season.

May a member of a high school coaching staff have any contact with a team member on Sunday, during the Authorized Practice or Contest Season?

Yes, students and coaches may have contact on Sunday, provided the contact is in no way related to coaching activities or related to athletic participation. May a member of a high school team in an Individual Sport, during the Authorized Practice or Contest Season, participate in a School Practice on Sunday?

No, it is a violation of the Sunday rule for a student athlete to participate in a School Practice on Sunday. A Practice attended by a member of the coaching staff or called by any One (1) connected with the coaching staff is prohibited. For example, if several swimmers on a School team, who also belonged to a non-school club, decided to swim on Sunday at a club practice to prepare for the upcoming state high school swim meet, their practice would violate the Sunday rule if a member of the high school coaching staff called or even encouraged this practice, or if a member of the coaching staff was present during this practice.

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The rule specifically states "during the Authorized Practice or Contest Season" every wrestler at this tournament was a freshman or sophomore who had been knocked out of the state tournament.  Therefore they were no longer involved in the "practice or contest season" and the Sunday rule no longer applies.

 

This is the same reason that you can have offseason club practices on Sunday but not in season.

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There is no miscommunication. Rules 9-11,9-12, 9-13, 9-14 Sunday coaching , activities and athletic contest are prohibited.

 

 

May a member of a high school coaching staff have any contact with a team member on Sunday, during the Authorized Practice or Contest Season?

Yes, students and coaches may have contact on Sunday, provided the contact is in no way related to coaching activities or related to athletic participation.

As I read through the list, this seems to be the sticking point.  Am I correct?  The other questions seem to basically involve extra practice sessions or lessons and this tournament is not hosted by a school.  Nothing prohibits the wrestlers themselves from attending this competition-right? So is the issue who can coach them matside? Are these wrestlers even considered to be 'in-season' if they are not still in the State Tournament series?

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Aren't lots of these kids still practicing in rooms prepping their teammates for state? If they're still participating in these in-season authorized activities, does that cause an issue?

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As I read through the list, this seems to be the sticking point. Am I correct? The other questions seem to basically involve extra practice sessions or lessons and this tournament is not hosted by a school. Nothing prohibits the wrestlers themselves from attending this competition-right? So is the issue who can coach them matside? Are these wrestlers even considered to be 'in-season' if they are not still in the State Tournament series?

That's where we were concerned. They can compete , but could we be matside as we still have a wrestler competing this weekend? The wrestler is not in season , but we are ? Ultimately the wrestler decided he didn't want to go and the head coach wanted him to take a break as well. This was just our concern when we started talking about them going - I'm assuming it would be fine since technically the wrestler is out of the state tournament and his season is over

Aren't lots of these kids still practicing in rooms prepping their teammates for state? If they're still participating in these in-season authorized activities, does that cause an issue?

Great question - our main wrestler who was going to go is the training partner of our kid - it's an area that is questionable for us.

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This is also up to interpretation as well. An AD once told me that the IHSAA contested season isn't over until the IHSAA state tournament is over even if an individuals season is over. Thats where it can get confusing. Does IHSAA have clarification on when the season is considered officially over for individuals that get eliminated? But like i said earlier our main concern was the traveling.

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This is also up to interpretation as well. An AD once told me that the IHSAA contested season isn't over until the IHSAA state tournament is over even if an individuals season is over. Thats where it can get confusing. Does IHSAA have clarification on when the season is considered officially over for individuals that get eliminated? But like i said earlier our main concern was the traveling.

I'd bet the IHSAA includes any date from the first official practice date until the state tournament is over.  It's just cut and dry that way.  So from a governing body that would be the likely stance.

 

The question still ends up being 'enforcement'.  Just like the comments about transfer students (see Bautista Slam? post).  The IHSAA invariably has rules like this in place to protect kids.  The transfer rule is designed to protect kids from getting 'recruited' to wrestle for another program making them pawns for coaches trying to build some dynasty.  The Sunday rule is designed to protect kids time for other activities etc....

 

I've used the word 'designed' because the intent of the rule is in the kids interest.  But much like any policy there are always exceptions where the rule has a negative or unintended consequence.

 

So- with respect to the Sunday rules, this seems to be one of those 'exceptions'.  I am sure almost every wrestler there on Sunday was there because they wanted to be (not out of some compulsion or coach coercoin) and that coaches were there giving of their 'free time' to support the kid.

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As I read through the list, this seems to be the sticking point.  Am I correct?  The other questions seem to basically involve extra practice sessions or lessons and this tournament is not hosted by a school.  Nothing prohibits the wrestlers themselves from attending this competition-right? So is the issue who can coach them matside? Are these wrestlers even considered to be 'in-season' if they are not still in the State Tournament series?

In my opinion, all of the wrestlers are done with their Scholastic season of wrestling. So the high school coaches should be eligible to coach them, just like they would coach them if they had a club and were coaching kids in the club, on a Sunday offseason match.But that is just my opinion. 

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