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sectional realignment


takemtothemat

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Here is probably the easiest way to eliminate a week

 

16- 20 team sectionals(basically use current regional structure with some changes)

 

Friday night wrestle the 4 rat or pig tails and then the first round of 16- 12 matches per weight max. That would last about 3 hours total. Pig/rat tail losers are eliminated.

Saturday wrestle the rest of the tournament with full wrestle-backs with the top 4 advancing to semi-state.

 

Semi-states with 16 as usual

State with 16 as usual

 

This is the format that I thought could work to combine sectionals & regionals.  If you do the pigtails and round of 16 on Friday night, then there will be 5 rounds left on Saturday.  A 2-day tournament at the sectional/regional level will be much easier on teams for travel and lodging.

 

I would like to see top 5 at semistate advance to state.  Quarterfinal losers wrestle back to 5th (like we had for a year or two).  5s wrestle 4s Friday night of state - adds about 1-1.5 hours unless they add a couple more mats at Bankers Life.

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Class the first two round of the State tournament. 1A, 2A, 3A. Same classification of the IHSWCA State Championships.

 

12 "1A" Sectionals using 16 man brackets. Lose pigtail and you are out. Wrestle backs to third just like we have now. Top 3 Advance to "1A" (Fort Wayne) Semi-State.  

 

12 "2A" Sectionals using 16 man brackets. Lose pigtail and you are out. Wrestle backs to third just like we have now. Top 3 Advance to "2A" (New Castle) Semi-State. 

 

12 "3A" Sectionals using 16 man bracket. Lose pigtail and you are out.Wrestle backs to third just like we have now. Top 4 Advance to "3A North" (East Chicago) or "3A South" (Evansville) Semi-State.

 

Semi-State will use a 24-man bracket. Bracket example is below. Top Four of each Semi-State advance to the State Championship at Banker Life Field House. 

 

This will only take three week to complete. 

 

Bracket to be used at Semi-State.

 

24-single-fillable-bracket.jpg

 

This allows opportunity for more schools to be represented at the State Championship and still only have 1 State Champ for each weight class. 

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Class the first two round of the State tournament. 1A, 2A, 3A. Same classification of the IHSWCA State Championships.

 

12 "1A" Sectionals using 16 man brackets. Lose pigtail and you are out. Wrestle backs to third just like we have now. Top 3 Advance to "1A" (Fort Wayne) Semi-State.  

 

12 "2A" Sectionals using 16 man brackets. Lose pigtail and you are out. Wrestle backs to third just like we have now. Top 3 Advance to "2A" (New Castle) Semi-State. 

 

12 "3A" Sectionals using 16 man bracket. Lose pigtail and you are out.Wrestle backs to third just like we have now. Top 4 Advance to "3A North" (East Chicago) or "3A South" (Evansville) Semi-State.

 

Semi-State will use a 24-man bracket. Bracket example is below. Top Four of each Semi-State advance to the State Championship at Banker Life Field House. 

 

This will only take three week to complete. 

 

Bracket to be used at Semi-State.

 

24-single-fillable-bracket.jpg

 

This allows opportunity for more schools to be represented at the State Championship and still only have 1 State Champ for each weight class. 

36 sectionals would make it nearly impossible to find enough referees.

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36 sectionals would make it nearly impossible to find enough referees.

 

Two Possibilities

 

1) 24 Sectional Sites 

 

Combine 1A & 2A sites 

 

2) Recruit more referees. 

State shouldn't be about getting schools represented, it should be about getting the best kids competing.

 

It would help grow wrestling in the state of Indiana. 

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Here's an interesting thought;Take a March Madness-like approach
 

Put together a selection committee through IHSAA or IHSWA similar to team state selections. It could be former coaches, officials and others that are involved in the sport but that can unbiased.

 
Select the top 8 wrestlers in each weight class in each current Regional on the last weekend of the regular season. Selections would be made based upon records, strength of schedule, placements in conference tournaments, bad losses and signature wins, etc.
 
Top 4 placers would move on after the Regional to Semi State and then the old system would resume. 
 
Maybe have another tournament for those that weren't selected on the Saturday off that would usually be Sectionals?
 
This would take a lot of work and research and it might not always be fair for smaller schools. But it would make the regular season and conference tournaments much more interesting! Could be a pipe dream..just throwing it out there
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I typed up a proposal last year to combine the weekends of Sectional/Regional to take a week out of our series.  We would love this idea of combining both weekends. 

 

Would it create some credibility with the IHSAA if we talked about less wrestling?  Can you imagine how many sports (and their crazy coaching associations) want more 'things' for their respective sport?

 

We would think that having the Super Regionals would be money makers for the IHSAA and make it easier to have enough officials. 

 

We do believe that if we are taking an entire week out of our individual tourney, we'd need to look at having wrestle backs from the quarter finals at semi state in return.  (that is the one we are passionate about).  Our association would be taking an entire week out of the state tourney series and it could be feasible to add a round of wrestle backs at semi state from the quarters in return. 

 

We already have a classed team state.  Why change that? 

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If I were the IHSWCA I'd propose two things this year and Faulkens would probably love us

 

1. Shortened post season with the above proposal of super regionals...hopefully with added wrestle-backs at semi-state(gotta hope here)

2. Limit the number of two day events to the first one is 2 schedule points and any after that is 4 schedule points. That would put a hard cap of 44 matches before sectional.

3. Joe Caprino supreme president of wrestling in Indiana.

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Guys I have one proposal that was just emailed to me.  If you guys have others get me the details on email just like I informed everyone at Fall Coaches clinic.  More details the better.  Survey will be coming in March to see where we stand as a association and what we want to see.

 

Joe

 

1. That was the proposal sent to me.

2. A version of this to increase amount of Duals was on our last survey that had under half the association members supporting it.  (personally I like the idea that is why I dropped a Sat meet to add a 5th and 6th dual this season)

3. LOL  Not sure that would have the effect you think it would.

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Two questions:

 

1. Would the IHSAA make more money from a 3 weekend tournament rather than 4.  On the outside it would look like the extra week would mean extra money, but I don't have the detailed breakdown of what all is involved.   Seems like the host schools would like to keep the extra week if it means more of them profit from the event. 

 

2. Would the small school association members like the idea of a super sectional.  Many of the small schools use the recognition their teams and individuals get from doing well at the sectional event in any sport to help push their sports programs and community pride.  Statistically the super regional would mean more teams and therefor less of a chance to place high and advance for any team.  While the larger schools often have several other sports and ways to promote their students acheivements, smaller schools tend to have less options available.   I would think lowering the chances the smaller schools have of promoting student achievement wouldn't be well received.

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In regards to #2, Faulkens said it at multiple meetings that we need to do something about match counts. This was heard by more than my ears. It was a warning for us as coaches to do something BEFORE the IHSAA does something. I'd rather the proposal and changes be on our terms than the IHSAA's. This is something that needs addressed promptly or else we'll get something like a 25 match count limit. 

We cannot ignore the warnings like we did when they kept saying team state would be taken away.


Two questions:

 

1. Would the IHSAA make more money from a 3 weekend tournament rather than 4.  On the outside it would look like the extra week would mean extra money, but I don't have the detailed breakdown of what all is involved.   Seems like the host schools would like to keep the extra week if it means more of them profit from the event. 

 

 

Less expenses with less weeks, right now I'm sure sectionals are at the break even point with expenses and revenue.

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Two questions:

 

1. Would the IHSAA make more money from a 3 weekend tournament rather than 4.  On the outside it would look like the extra week would mean extra money, but I don't have the detailed breakdown of what all is involved.   Seems like the host schools would like to keep the extra week if it means more of them profit from the event. 

 

2. Would the small school association members like the idea of a super sectional.  Many of the small schools use the recognition their teams and individuals get from doing well at the sectional event in any sport to help push their sports programs and community pride.  Statistically the super regional would mean more teams and therefor less of a chance to place high and advance for any team.  While the larger schools often have several other sports and ways to promote their students acheivements, smaller schools tend to have less options available.   I would think lowering the chances the smaller schools have of promoting student achievement wouldn't be well received.

So if small schools don't like it.    We got a novel solution for that will shorten the tournament and provide recognition for the small schools which they will like.  Its called "Class Wrestling".

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Less expenses with less weeks, right now I'm sure sectionals are at the break even point with expenses and revenue.

The next questions would be do we know of a possible trade off the IHSAA is willing to offer up to wrestling for saving them this money?  Or are we just offering up the possible money saver and then crossing our fingures that it will comeback to us in some way later. 

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Question for IHSWCA guys. What determined the 3 class system? For a classed team state to be adopted by IHSAA, would more classes be needed for 304 to 310 schools? Would it not be beneficial to label a dual team as 7+ wrestlers in a lineup? Then base classes on that with 64 teams in an all in format. Have 8 team sectional/regionals with single elimination and taking the top 2 teams. Then semi-state with double elimination with winner going to state.

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I get everything that is being stated above, but other than giving us more clout with the IHSAA I don't see how having a three week tournament really helps out our sport.

I see a lot of discussion about how small teams need more representation at state, but wouldn't having less opportunities to make it to regionals and semi-state negatively effect the small schools even more? That would mean less patches, less sectional champ pictures on the wall, less accomplishments and opportunities overall.

I'm not being snarky here in the least, just legitimately wondering what positives it would bring.

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Casual if we had classes we would be treated as a team sport and not an individual is basically what I've been told. I felt there was a little confusion from the IHSAA on exactally what we wanted, but I felt that the IHSAA didn't seem real keen on having us have a multi class team championship, and a 1 class individual tournament. I also didn't get the vibe that they were real interested in having our individual portion classed at this point as none of the other individual sports are classed.

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Casual if we had classes we would be treated as a team sport and not an individual is basically what I've been told. I felt there was a little confusion from the IHSAA on exactally what we wanted, but I felt that the IHSAA didn't seem real keen on having us have a multi class team championship, and a 1 class individual tournament. I also didn't get the vibe that they were real interested in having our individual portion classed at this point as none of the other individual sports are classed.

Thanks for the insight. Not surprising the IHSAA would abandon common sense with class team duals and individual single class tournaments. They can't seem to get seeding either for team sports, but I digress. No use beating a dead horse some more.

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I get everything that is being stated above, but other than giving us more clout with the IHSAA I don't see how having a three week tournament really helps out our sport.

I see a lot of discussion about how small teams need more representation at state, but wouldn't having less opportunities to make it to regionals and semi-state negatively effect the small schools even more? That would mean less patches, less sectional champ pictures on the wall, less accomplishments and opportunities overall.

I'm not being snarky here in the least, just legitimately wondering what positives it would bring.

I don't know of any other states that take a month to complete their tournament.  Its a drag on the kids, creates more injury and cutting weight and its tough on the parents to go week after week.   See what Faulkens said about going to super 6 tourneys every weekend. I think that whole idea applies to the state tournament.  Its a lot overkill.      

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I don't know of any other states that take a month to complete their tournament.  Its a drag on the kids, creates more injury and cutting weight and its tough on the parents to go week after week.   See what Faulkens said about going to super 6 tourneys every weekend. I think that whole idea applies to the state tournament.  Its a lot overkill.      

That's because most states are classed and have less kids per class than we do with one class. I was glad to see team state taken out of the middle of the week, I always felt this was a disadvantage to kids that had to wrestle and make weight 2 times a week. The week is nice to give time to recover from minor injuries during the weekend. I don't mind the 3 week grind, it's not a month once it starts. sect-reg (1 wk) reg-ss (2 wks) ss-state (3 wks). Plus you are talking about only 7.5 % of the kids from semi-state on. Whenever all this stuff is brought up everyone acts like it is the whole wrestling community. 896 Semi-state kids and 224 State kids. The majority of the kids at state are year long athletes, whether multi-sport or just wrestling.

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Casual if we had classes we would be treated as a team sport and not an individual is basically what I've been told. I felt there was a little confusion from the IHSAA on exactally what we wanted, but I felt that the IHSAA didn't seem real keen on having us have a multi class team championship, and a 1 class individual tournament. I also didn't get the vibe that they were real interested in having our individual portion classed at this point as none of the other individual sports are classed.

So you like how it waters down the tournament? More steps make it easier to advance and we all know you are on record not wanting a watered down tournament. 

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