Indiana's 'middle class' in wrestling

[Y2CJ41]

That's a huge assumption that has never been supported by data. I haven't seen anyone provide a comparison of pre-class numbers to the post-class numbers in any state. So we are only assuming that classing wrestling will increase participation because we don't know any of the pre-class participation rates. All evidence to suggest it would have a major impact at schools with a general apathy towards wrestling has been anecdotal at best, and certainly subject to other interpretations.

Since 2008 only 22.32% of the state qualifiers have come from the smaller half of the schools. If we'd have two classes you would DEFINITELY see more small schools with wrestlers advance to the state finals. There are currently 52 schools in the bottom half(approximately 155 schools) that have not had a state qualifier since 2008. There are ONLY 11 schools that have had enough qualifiers to average one per year since then.

 

So yes you would see MANY different and new schools represented at the state finals. There is NO FEASIBLE way that those top 11 schools would generated every state qualifier in a classed system.

[awood2]

Evansville Mater Dei won 11 (team) state titles from 1995-2007 against the much larger Indy schools and the giants from up north.  They won b/c of the culture in that school building.  

 

I don't want to cast anyone in a negative light, but many of the dominant programs today were not so dominant in the recent past.  Did those programs have a sudden spike in enrollment or DID A NEW COACH COME IN AND CHANGE THE CULTURE?!  Trace the success of the dominant programs back today to when the present coach took over.  

 

Enrollment and/or classes won't make your kids a better wrestler.  Putting all this time and effort into handing out more medals is ridiculous.  If your concern is for making Indiana wrestling stronger and creating better human beings then LOGOFF and go open up the room, take the test to ref, and put in some work b/c that's what makes a champion NOT CLASSES. 

 

**Definitely not saying small school coaches suck.**

 

What about all the 5A high schools who never win a wrestling state title...?  

Edited January 25, 2017 by awood2

[Y2CJ41]

Evansville Mater Dei won 11 (team) state titles from 1995-2007 against the much larger Indy schools and the giants from up north.  They won b/c of the culture in that school building.  

 

I don't want to cast anyone in a negative light, but many of the dominant programs today were not so dominant in the recent past.  Did those programs have a sudden spike in enrollment or DID A NEW COACH COME IN AND CHANGE THE CULTURE?!  Trace the success of the dominant programs back today to when the present coach took over.  

 

Enrollment and/or classes won't make your kids a better wrestler.  Putting all this time and effort into handing out more medals is ridiculous.  If your concern is for making Indiana wrestling stronger and creating better human beings then LOGOFF and go open up the room, take the test to ref, and put in some work b/c that's what makes a champion NOT CLASSES. 

So you are basically saying that small school coaches suck and don't put in the time. Is that what I am reading? I definitely don't want to put words into your mouth. 

[TripleB]

Here we go.....

[AJ]

Here we go.....

 

Come on Triple B, we have patiently waited all season for the annual class wrestling debate....  I love this time of year!!!

[Coach Peck]

I wanted to throw an idea out and see what others thought.......

 

I have read most of the 'class wrestling' vs 'one class' discussions here over the years and I can see the pros and cons of both sides of the argument.  (I also understand that we coach in the largest school in the state)

 

Right after I started CIA, I remember going to see a big 32 team tourney over winter break to see the finals of kids that trained with us.  I remember looking over to mat 4 and seeing the wrestling for 7th and 8th and then my opinion on class wrestling changed.  Seeing the level of wrestling for 8th place of a 32 team tourney means that there were hypothetically 24 guys worse than the guy getting 8th.  At that moment, my opinion of adding class wrestling moved in favor of starting class wrestling (as long as it keeps our state tourney in Bankers Life...but that's a different story).

 

If smaller schools had a chance for success against other smaller schools, I can only image that they'd go back to school, pronounce themselves as Sectional champions and get some notoriety in the school and making it more attractive for others to participate and hopefully that would help 'snowball' into a more solid program over time.

 

I believe that the top 10 percent of Indiana wrestling is as good as it's ever been in our state's history, and the bottom 10% is still the bottom 10%.  What can we do to make sure the 'middle class' of Indiana wrestling is also getting better?  Class wrestling could be something that could help.

 

Then my thought went to JV teams wrestling in varsity tournaments.  This year Carmel sent their JV to a varsity tourney for the first time.  They finished 7th in a 16 team tourney and had 1 champ.  We were happy for them to have some quality matches.  But if the top 10% of Indiana's teams (I'm definitely saying we're top 10%) didn't send their JV teams to varsity tourneys, wouldn't that leave a place for other teams to have success?

 

....and if nobody sent their JV to varsity tourneys, wouldn't that mean that we could get better JV tourneys because they would be looking for tough JVs to compete against? 

 

I guess my question is that if we all stopped sending JVs to varsity tourneys, wouldn't it open up places for Indiana's 'middle class' programs to have more success?  I'm thinking if we all stopped sending JV's to varsity tourneys it would be a baby step towards class wrestling and it would make opportunities to have better true JV matches.

I agree with you across the board.

[RegionRoyalty]

I agree with you across the board.

 

 

There's a value added comment  

Edited January 25, 2017 by RegionRoyalty

[Ed Pendoski]

Rookie78,

 

What you said in your post is what makes me think if we stopped wrestling JV in varsity would help...

 

In 3 of our 4 weeknight duals matches this year, we wrestled 0 jv matches, due to lack of wrestlers on the opposing schools. In our other dual (Homestead), we wrestled 13 jv matches, plus the Varsity dual which made for a great night of wrestling. 

 

If the opposing schools had success in local tourneys, wouldn't it be easier for them to promote our sport in their school....and hence help them fill their JV team?

 

...and if all of the top 10% schools (In my opinion, Prairie Heights is in that group) didn't go to varsity tourneys, then they would have JV tourneys worth taking their teams too.

[rookie78]

I see both sides. I think getting asked to compete since we could fill a full second team was an opportunity for us to take. I am positive that a few of the other teams would have preferred not wresting our JV, but it was either us or take bye and a round off.

 

Earlier this year I looked at the numbers of wrestlers on the teams in our conference. We had 36 kids, all the others combined for an average of 18.8, with several kids on the same team filling the same weights. Others were out for various reasons: ineligible, skin conditions, concussions, injuries,etc; therefore our kids not getting any jv matches on the nights of the Varsity dual. We even had 7 138 pounders ourselves this year.

 

Considering wrestling jv squads in Varsity events, again I see both sides. Good for a competitive jv team, not so good necessarily for some of the top varsity teams because the competition just isn't there (especially against a small school jv).

 

We have wrestled against Harrison's jv 2 years I believe at the War on the Wabash. Wasn't really what we wanted, because we want to be pushed, but it was better than us sitting out a round. Probably not exactly what they wanted either, but they took some lumps and learned along the way. Same was true for us this year. Our jv got steam rolled by Harrison's varsity this year, I think we scored six. Wasn't pretty but they got to see where they need to be.

 

Being successful is a huge help in promoting wrestling for us. The tradition at PH is also a big factor. Winning War on the Wabash,conference, sectionals, team state duals, placing in the top 10 at the Al Smith I think does help get numbers up.

 

I believe our first year of coaching we had 20 kids and gave up 4 or so forfeits every match. Definitely was rough, going 12-16 and not what PH was used too.

 

Recruiting kids and working in the school helps. A little more success the next year and more kids out. More of the same in year 3 and then just everything finally clicked. So yes, the success we have had after first 2 years, has definitely helped fill our jv. Kids want to be a part of sectional, conference, and team state duals championship teams.

 

I think we just need some more jv tourneys/jv super duals if numbers allow. We travel 45 minutes to one jv event, then an 1.5 hours each to the other 2. I definitely don't want enter our jv into a varsity event to get slaughtered, that would kill morale.

[casualwrestlingfan]

Should each school get two individuals at each weight class if possible for individual state?

[DGelarden]

Haven't posted in a while - but this one is interesting.

 

When I was coaching and running events - I would never entertain the thought of a B squad coming to our events.   We were a upper middle of the pack program, always chasing the top teams, but never quite getting there.  Yes we'd have individual success - and team success to a point - but not on the likes of the states elite.

 

We were faced and approached many times with teams wanting to bring a B squad.  But never did it - and here is why.

 

I would often share with other coaches who had programs like mine - that inviting or allowing the top tier programs to have their JV's compete against varsity competition - in the long run - only helped the top tier school - not the next tier that I felt we were a part of.   I felt that you were continuing to help build/keep the power schools on top for the following years - while we'd struggle to reload.    My job as a coach at my school - was to build my program - not help somebody else's with additional opportunities.   I didn't mind the challenge of chasing the top - but I sure wasn't going to help it keep beating my over the head each year.  Make those programs with loads of kids host their own events.  If they've got loads of kids - they've probably got loads of help to run a good JV events.

 

We had JV's - and we made it a point to travel long distances to find them matches - against all levels of competition - at JV events.  We even took our JV's to events in Illinois, because of our closeness to the state line.

 

Again - my job was to build my team - not somebody else's team.   So I felt like one way of trying to keep them down - was limiting these additional opportunities.

[doctorWrestling]

I am still unsure what we are even talking about.  Are you considering Penn's 2nd varsity team ( that wins a lot of varsity tournaments ) a JV team?  Would you tell them they couldn't be in your tournament because that gives Penn's program an advantage even if they are better than the other teams you have coming?  I guess if they are not considered good enough for some tournaments, they would still be welcome elsewhere.  Just wanted to make sure I understand what JV means.

 

Penn seems to be doing something right.  They have a ton of kids on their team, field 2 or 3 good teams that compete at the varsity level, and somehow keep kids who have a slim chance of ever wrestling varsity in the sport.  I would consider them a model to follow in that respect.  Others may want a team of 14 kids who just go all out.  To each their own, just a different approach.

[awood2]

The only thing I would change about you post is that I would not mention any school by name.  I think that some people will see the name and give all the credit to the size of the school.  Having 2000+ students in the building doesn't make any one of them faster or better technique.  They are all kids who need recruited and developed.  

 

Meanwhile, back to your point.  There are programs like this that are a model for how to grow your program.  There are 100s of kids in that program b/c they have opportunities to perform ('JV' at a varsity tourney).

 

To your other point - why are you still considering them a JV team if they are competing with your varsity?  I was a product of Memorial HS (Jim Nicholson) and Manchester College (Tom Jarmen).  At both of those schools there was a culture in the building/campus that the wrestling program was something to be revered.  Everyone knew that if you were part of that program you were something special.  Both coaches were going to push you and you were going to have to compete.  When we walked into weigh-ins we certainly didn't think of ourselves as JV or varsity.  We were the guys who were going to wrestle to win every match we were assigned.  If we didn't we were expected to perform well, follow the system, and fix what we did wrong!  Isn't that more important than knowing who is the JV or varsity?  When did we take that mentality away?

 

The greatest label bestowed upon any of us was 'wrestler'.  To me that means you don't care about any other label b/c you were going to get my best effort no matter what. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by awood2

[Ed Pendoski]

There are stumbling blocks in every situation. 

 

Let's define the question on the table.

 

Varsity is the school's #1 team

 

Everything else is JV.

 

If the top schools that have numbers and a culture and they send their JV teams to varsity tournaments, does it make it more difficult for the teams that are trying to build a culture and numbers in their room.   And if the top schools all stopped sending JV teams to varsity tournaments, would there be more JV tournaments that would better fit their JV teams?

 

Now, I'll be first to admit that I've never coached at a small school or a rural area so I have never 'walked a mile in their shoes', but my first thought is that if a guy is on the fence about joining our sport and he went to a tourney and lost to a school's JV guy, he wouldn't feel great about it.  Sending JV to varsity tourneys helps the established programs and the expense of the non-established programs.  If we stopped sending JV to varsity tourneys it would help the non-established teams, but at the expense of the established programs.

 

Is there a chance that we are 'over-fishing the lake'?  The established programs keep getting more established and it is at the expense of the non-established teams. 

 

Meaning that if the best programs keep firing out more good kids, and they are getting the experience at the expense of the programs that are farther behind them?  If we continue this pace, will the programs that are behind the 'experienced programs' never catch up and eventually just stop having programs all together.

 

Does anyone think that the disparity level amongst Indiana wrestling has increased over the years. If we stopped sending JV to varsity tournaments would that help close the gap between the 20th best program to the 150th best program. 

 

My first thought is that it would be a good investment in the future of Indiana wrestling.  It wouldn't make a difference tomorrow, but could be a path to help Indiana wrestling's future.

[Y2CJ41]

Playing the devil's advocate...maybe...

 

If we now are sending our JV to JV tournaments where they wrestle the lower team's JV kids and throttle them, how is that good for those kids and/or the sport?

[UncleJimmy]

 

"Does anyone think that the disparity level amongst Indiana wrestling has increased over the years. If we stopped sending JV to varsity tournaments would that help close the gap between the 20th best program to the 150th best program. 

 

My first thought is that it would be a good investment in the future of Indiana wrestling.  It wouldn't make a difference tomorrow, but could be a path to help Indiana wrestling's future."

 

I'm a newbie with no historical knowledge in the sport but I do feel there is a very clear disparity level currently. I do not, however, feel it is due to big school 2nd/JV teams wrestling at other schools varsity tourneys. I think it's more of an "AAU" type trickle down effect. You have kids who are serious about the sport now getting exposed to offseason camps/tourneys/practices and advancing their skills to a much higher level than those kids who aren't "as committed". Not to degrade commitment level, but there just weren't the offseason opportunities or knowledge of them that there are now for those who wish to commit to the sport physically and finacially. So those that want them, can easily find them and thus advance at a greater rate than others that don't.

 

It might help the sport become more competitive in the long term, but I think it would be at a cost of top level skill deterioration. Doubt that's what we want.

 

To GDelarden's point.."Again - my job was to build my team - not somebody else's team. So I felt like one way of trying to keep them down - was limiting these additional opportunities."

 

This sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face! I'll show you...you're 2nd team won't be in my event! Which, means your kids don't get to compete against better talent aka the whole Iron sharpens Iron thing? Cost is a major factor in today's school systems so asking AD's to drive cross state for JV tourneys just isn't feasible or appealing to strapped school systems.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by UncleJimmy

[doctorWrestling]

All I can say is that I want the best teams I can get to wrestle on our schedule.  If the JV/2nd team from a really good school is available and they are as good or better than other teams I can compete against, I would take them over a lesser varsity team any day.  Most small schools have no shot of ever getting in the Al Smith tournament, team state, or getting on the schedule of the top teams in the state and the kids don't see enough good competition.  Some still have some outstanding individuals who need challenges.  Giving them a chance to compete with some really good kids will help them in my opinion.  I say if there are tournaments who let you compete, please compete.  If your second team is not good enough to compete, that would be when I would complain.

Edited January 27, 2017 by doctorWrestling

[GrecoCoach]

Let's define the question on the table.

 

Varsity is the school's #1 team

 

Everything else is JV.

 

Sorry Ed.  I disagree with your starting definition.  If a coach feels that his 2nd team has a varsity level ability, then why can't they be labelled as "Varsity B Team"?  The top programs in the country all do it.  If we, as a state, want to get our top 10% of teams to that kind of level, then that is what the mentality should be.  Saying everything else is JV doesn't define or describe all 2nd string levels of ability.

 

The schools that are hosting the varsity events should be the ones to accept or reject B squads.  That should be based on what is best for the event and the teams that pay to be there based on the competitiveness of all teams there.  (And the host coach's beliefs, as well) 

[Timeinandout]

There are stumbling blocks in every situation. 

 

Let's define the question on the table.

 

Varsity is the school's #1 team

 

Everything else is JV.

 

If the top schools that have numbers and a culture and they send their JV teams to varsity tournaments, does it make it more difficult for the teams that are trying to build a culture and numbers in their room.   And if the top schools all stopped sending JV teams to varsity tournaments, would there be more JV tournaments that would better fit their JV teams?

 

Now, I'll be first to admit that I've never coached at a small school or a rural area so I have never 'walked a mile in their shoes', but my first thought is that if a guy is on the fence about joining our sport and he went to a tourney and lost to a school's JV guy, he wouldn't feel great about it.  Sending JV to varsity tourneys helps the established programs and the expense of the non-established programs.  If we stopped sending JV to varsity tourneys it would help the non-established teams, but at the expense of the established programs.

 

Is there a chance that we are 'over-fishing the lake'?  The established programs keep getting more established and it is at the expense of the non-established teams. 

 

Meaning that if the best programs keep firing out more good kids, and they are getting the experience at the expense of the programs that are farther behind them?  If we continue this pace, will the programs that are behind the 'experienced programs' never catch up and eventually just stop having programs all together.

 

Does anyone think that the disparity level amongst Indiana wrestling has increased over the years. If we stopped sending JV to varsity tournaments would that help close the gap between the 20th best program to the 150th best program. 

 

My first thought is that it would be a good investment in the future of Indiana wrestling.  It wouldn't make a difference tomorrow, but could be a path to help Indiana wrestling's future.

Y2 beat me to it.  About four years ago our JV team was uninvited to a fairly large JV tourney.  Our team ran away with the tourney, and the coach said that having us there wasn't good for his guys.  The host school of this tourney is a top 10% team/school for sure.

 

Most of the time when we try to get our varsity 2 team into a tournament we are told no thanks.  Most of the time we are filling in a vacancy (when we get an invite) that the host school needed to fill.  I know it is better to have our second team in there battling than having a bye at a super dual or 7 teams in an 8 team bracket.  

 

The main reason we began wrestling our 2nd team at varsity tourneys was because we had trouble getting matches for our non-varsity competitors.  We wrestled a top 10% school this year in a dual and only wrestled 3 JV matches.  No one wants to stay out for the team and wrestle 5 times a year.  There aren't a lot of JV events and we have a lot kids out for the team.  My questions is should we limit competition to the top 2 or 3 in each weight class?  I wish we could have a Freshman, JV and Varsity schedule,

 

We started wrestling our middle school second team against other schools about 10 years ago at the request of the opposing schools.  I know MS is different, but at least some feel having a more competitive dual was more beneficial.  Last, I am not naive to the points you are making.  I do get what you are saying.  I have tried to think of my Varsity team in the same situation, but it wouldn't compare to a middle class team getting beat by a top tier JV.  

Shaun Richardson

PM

Edited January 27, 2017 by Timeinandout

[awood2]

Now we are getting somewhere...

 

The whole essence of wrestling hinges on this topic.  EVERY sport has a talent gap.  There is disparity in every sport, in every state, in every talent pool of every school.  Wrestling is better/different b/c despite where fate has placed you in terms of school you have a choice of ways to better yourself.  If you think summer wrestling is for you - do it.  If it's more conditioning - do it.  If you think a lower weight is your best chance - do it!  If that doesn't work you always have a chance to go for a surprise move & a pin!@#$%&*

 

Most importantly, wrestling teaches us all that no matter what God-given gifts you were born with the most valuable is often times a stubborn, no-quit, break my back kinda grind work ethic.  

 

On the other hand, along the course of developing young athletes they need to find levels where they can compete.  That is up to the coach.  It seems most people that host a tournament tend to invite teams for a specific reason - competitive level.  Whether you host or join a tournament it doesn't matter who is there you can't guarantee that your kids won't draw a 'hammer' at some point in the season.  My coach used to have code words for when I was about to encounter one.  It wasn't until much later in life that I cracked the codes: "He is a good athlete," meant my butt was about to get kicked.  It's a lesson equally as important as standing on the top tier of podium at dinner time.  

 

In life, the playing field is not level.  Jobs and the people charged with completing them are not equal.  Let your athletes get the most out of our sport and allow them to dream big, always fight hard, and like 99.9% of us - get their butts handed to them.  The best coaches I ever had really shined when I lost and they had to put me back together for the next challenge.  It is times when life is kicking my butt when I am the most grateful for and give the most thought to my best coaches.  Why would you ever want to limit those opportunities for you athletes?

 

IMO, that is exactly why Penn is so successful in everything.  That whole district, starting at the superintendent and the assistant super, focus on individual growth and setting very high standards.  The expectations are high across the district.  Every staff member supports every student towards growth; and the wins take care of themselves.

[Coach McCormick]

I remember when I was a freshman at Delta HS.  We had a full freshman team and we only wrestled against other freshman teams.  That was in the early 80's and as we all know, times have changed with respect to students participating in high school athletics (especially wrestling).

 

1.  JV, Varsity 2, Varsity B, Split Squad --   call them what you would like.  If a program/coach feels that his 2nd string needs to 

                   compete at a higher level then so be it.  People (i.e. - fans, some school administrators) get too hung up on what

                   we call our 2nd string teams.  Yes, one school's 2nd string may be better than another school's 1st string.  Get

                    past the labels and let them compete.

 

2.  Common JV tournaments --  It is becoming very, very difficult to find JV tournaments that offer quality and quantity.  Some

                   schools don't have a large coaching staff, so they cannot afford to schedule a bunch of JV/2nd string events

                   throughout the season.  It is also becoming difficult to even find good JV events throughout the entire season

                   (within a reasonable driving distance).  Too much emphasis has been put on varsity in recent years; and not 

                   enough on JV wrestling.  If kids have an opportunity to compete at the JV level, they will see value in their efforts

                   and your numbers will grow.

 

What if....

         This is completely hypothetical and would likely never go in our current school environments... but... what if we went back

         to "all freshmen teams?"  Freshmen wrestling teams that practiced together, competed together, and only competed                  against other all-freshmen teams?  I am not insinuating that this would fix all of our sport's ailments, but I do think it would          help in building numbers in programs.  I do think we lose many average/new freshmen because they and/or their parents          don't like the thought of them practicing with upperclassmen.

 

Class Wrestling...

         Class wrestling would most definitely help build and grow wrestling in Indiana.  It works in Ohio, Oklahoma, Illinois, and

         and just about every other state across the country.  It would work in Indiana AND the 'middle class' would start to

         thrive again.

 

Coach McCormick

 

 

 

[Westforkwhite]

Taking away opportunities from JV wrestlers at top programs in hopes that it will magically result in more wrestlers wanting to wrestle at non-traditional programs is a huge leap of faith. I don't think we raise the quality or quantity of wrestlers in the state by diminishing our top programs. Apathy in non-traditional programs will not be affected by punishing  power schools.

 

It takes a tremendous amount of passion and dedication by one man (head coach) who in turn, has to get dozens of other people passionate so they too will contribute obscene amounts of their time into making a program a success. That doesn't even include getting kids out for the team, keeping them on the team, developing their skills, etc... I just don't see that taking chances away from JV kids is going to spark this level of interest and commitment in floundering programs.

 

Please don't take this as "small coaches aren't working hard enough", because I certainly don't feel that way.

[Westforkwhite]

.

 

Class Wrestling...

         Class wrestling would most definitely help build and grow wrestling in Indiana.  It works in Ohio, Oklahoma, Illinois, and

         and just about every other state across the country.  It would work in Indiana AND the 'middle class' would start to

         thrive again.

 

 

 

All of the states you list have a greater wrestling traditions than Indiana, and you have no idea whether class wrestling helped or hurt the participation rates. We only have post class #s from those states, without pre-class #s we are only assuming an outcome which hasn't been supported by data.

[Coach Peck]

I remember when I was a freshman at Delta HS.  We had a full freshman team and we only wrestled against other freshman teams.  That was in the early 80's and as we all know, times have changed with respect to students participating in high school athletics (especially wrestling).

 

1.  JV, Varsity 2, Varsity B, Split Squad --   call them what you would like.  If a program/coach feels that his 2nd string needs to 

                   compete at a higher level then so be it.  People (i.e. - fans, some school administrators) get too hung up on what

                   we call our 2nd string teams.  Yes, one school's 2nd string may be better than another school's 1st string.  Get

                    past the labels and let them compete.

 

2.  Common JV tournaments --  It is becoming very, very difficult to find JV tournaments that offer quality and quantity.  Some

                   schools don't have a large coaching staff, so they cannot afford to schedule a bunch of JV/2nd string events

                   throughout the season.  It is also becoming difficult to even find good JV events throughout the entire season

                   (within a reasonable driving distance).  Too much emphasis has been put on varsity in recent years; and not 

                   enough on JV wrestling.  If kids have an opportunity to compete at the JV level, they will see value in their efforts

                   and your numbers will grow.

 

What if....

         This is completely hypothetical and would likely never go in our current school environments... but... what if we went back

         to "all freshmen teams?"  Freshmen wrestling teams that practiced together, competed together, and only competed                  against other all-freshmen teams?  I am not insinuating that this would fix all of our sport's ailments, but I do think it would          help in building numbers in programs.  I do think we lose many average/new freshmen because they and/or their parents          don't like the thought of them practicing with upperclassmen.

 

Class Wrestling...

         Class wrestling would most definitely help build and grow wrestling in Indiana.  It works in Ohio, Oklahoma, Illinois, and

         and just about every other state across the country.  It would work in Indiana AND the 'middle class' would start to

         thrive again.

 

Coach McCormick

If they put the restrictions on match numbers they are talking about then the number of JV Tournaments will probably increase due to the fact that there will be a few more open dates.

[AJ]

 

  

  I wish we could have a Freshman, JV and Varsity schedule,

 

  

Shaun Richardson

PM

 

 

Could the 10% to 20% of the teams we are talking about actually start their own freshman/jv tournaments?  Have 3 or 4 big ones during the season?  Then open them up to other teams when their programs grow?

 

Kids need quality matches, not just matches... and that goes for the top end, middle and bottom....  

T