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BlastDouble

Bad officiating

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In fairness to the officials (not only the good ones but also the ones who were clearly for the other team . . .) shouldn't there be a "Bad Spectating" thread to balance this out? Or has that discussion already been fully voiced and brought to an acceptable resolution . . . ?

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Can we all agree that Tom Clark guy really keeps a good coach like myself down....

and to add his inevitable reply....

 

At least it doesn't that long for me to get down 

 

:P

 

Being an official is a job I do not envy they have to deal with guys like me Moaning and complaining....they should get an automatic pass at the pearly gates

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At one of the conference tournaments in the region a couple of weeks ago there was a very questionable call on the out of bounds line. The wrestlers were scrambling and there didn't appear to be control as they went out of bounds. The referee awarded the takedown and the coach called him to the table and the referee's response was that "he had a little bit of control".

I was standing near the scores table when this happened.

"He had a little bit of control ". Is that like saying " she is a little bit pregnant ?"

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"He had a little bit of control ". Is that like saying " she is a little bit pregnant ?"

 

In a couple of months you're definitely gonna know if she's pregnant, but you're still not gonna know if there was control...

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Something I say to the other referees I'm working with from time to time.

 

"We are going to start the day with 4 referees. The instant the first whistle blows everyone in the building becomes a referee. They will be able to see pins better than us, determine who is stalling and know the exact moment control is gained or lost. The only difference is they aren't going to step in and work a few matches for you when you need to use the restroom or get something to eat."

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Something I say to the other referees I'm working with from time to time.

 

"We are going to start the day with 4 referees. The instant the first whistle blows everyone in the building becomes a referee. They will be able to see pins better than us, determine who is stalling and know the exact moment control is gained or lost. The only difference is they aren't going to step in and work a few matches for you when you need to use the restroom or get something to eat."

 

There are a few assistant coaches that I know that would happily step in for you GrecoRef, and could!  Me being one of them.  The issue for me was that advancing to Varsity tournaments was not happening as quickly as I would have liked because people knew who I was and thought I had a bias against teams.  Now in reality, I saw a red and a green wrestler.  I do not care if I coached a kid for 10 years, knew the family, or it was the first time ever seeing the person.  Now the issue is I enjoy coaching the team I have more than I used to enjoy officiating.  Though that is not to say if I moved away from NWI/Chicagoland area, that I would not ever want to officiate again.

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You know what.... if you guys got to complain about officiating you can ALWAYS register and start officiating and help these guys out. They need more officials! So before you start and or keep bashing them get off your butt and lend a hand :)

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You know what.... if you guys got to complain about officiating you can ALWAYS register and start officiating and help these guys out. They need more officials! So before you start and or keep bashing them get off your butt and lend a hand :)

So...are you headed for the dark side Cosgrove?  Now that you're not coaching I mean.

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There are a few assistant coaches that I know that would happily step in for you GrecoRef, and could!  Me being one of them.  The issue for me was that advancing to Varsity tournaments was not happening as quickly as I would have liked because people knew who I was and thought I had a bias against teams.  Now in reality, I saw a red and a green wrestler.  I do not care if I coached a kid for 10 years, knew the family, or it was the first time ever seeing the person.  Now the issue is I enjoy coaching the team I have more than I used to enjoy officiating.  Though that is not to say if I moved away from NWI/Chicagoland area, that I would not ever want to officiate again.

 

The number 2 reason most referees don't continue on is they don't feel they advance as fast as they should. There are a variety of reasons for not advancing. Most are self inflicted.

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It sounds like Jennings County has an official talent pool problem.  If you want to solve this problem, coaches, parents encourage your x-wrestlers to officiate.  The only way to get better officials is to get new one who love the sport and want to stay involved. High School officiating in any sport, is a great way to earn some extra cash and build integrity and character which will help any young person in their journey thru life. 

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The number 2 reason most referees don't continue on is they don't feel they advance as fast as they should. There are a variety of reasons for not advancing. Most are self inflicted.

 

I always thought it was the Good Old Boy System?? 

 

Easy fellas, I'm just messing!!!

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Hey, BBB

 

Just think if the officials could rate the coaches on their chance to advance.......

You would have never made it out of sectionals, "Swear to God you Wouldnt!!!"

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My son was a sectional champion as a senior in 2015.  He's now a college student in central Indiana and is in his second year as an official.  Admittedly, it's difficult for him to get matches with his limited experience, but it is a great source of income for college kids, if they can work matches into their schedules!  This past weekend he was fortunate to be one of 4 officials at a conference meet in northern Indiana.  I'm biased of course, but I think he did an excellent job!  One of the coaches told me he thought my son was the second best official at the meet!  More kids like him need to be encouraged to jump into the sport as officials.  It really can be quite beneficial financially for college kids in particular.  And it can help to build the number of younger officials in the sport.

 

I started umpiring baseball when I was 16 or 17, starting with LL.  It certainly helped that I played the game.  I started calling HS games the year after I graduated and by my junior year in college I was doing some DII (calling games with former teammates still playing) and Junior College games.  In fact, I skipped a few classes in college to travel to Southern Illinois to do JuCo games.   I got a couple of sectionals in and was on schedule to get a regional, but I graduated college and took a job. Sadly, once I graduated and got busy with real life I moved on to other things.  

 

I know it wasn't wrestling , but it serves as an example how getting started early can be beneficial.  Officiating is hard.  You have to study the rules and the interpretations and work at it.  You won't make everyone happy even if you are 100% right.  Fans scream, coaches yell.  You are the only one not emotionally invested.  Learning to deal with all of that is tough.  When I had a coach come out to yell at me about a call, my instinct was to defend myself vociferously.  I had to learn to sit back, listen and respond calmly.  That was an uphill struggle!  I learned from more veteran officials and used my playing experience.  Simply I cared to be good and to get better.  It also helped I had met a few guys around the same age and we pushed each other.  

 

Long story short, if you aren't already, I'd certainly encourage you to get your wrestlers involved and teach them at the youth level.  Not all will take to it, but for me it was a great way to make $ and enjoy a different side of the sport I played.  

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Similar experience with baseball...started doing LL in high school and did 2 games/nite/2days a week. Made as much, if not more, than working an entire week of shifts at McD's! Plus, was able to go to the beach during the day, go work the games from 6 to about 10pm..go hang out with the buds after. Did it up until about 4 years ago when even the 6-10 year old LL parents became maniacal and the arseache didn't justify the $$ anymore. Penn has their HS kids ref the elem duals for the school system and it is great experience and hope a lot of programs do it. You either take to it or you don't, but even if 2-3 do maybe we can offset the officiating decline.

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There are a few assistant coaches that I know that would happily step in for you GrecoRef, and could!  Me being one of them.  The issue for me was that advancing to Varsity tournaments was not happening as quickly as I would have liked because people knew who I was and thought I had a bias against teams.  Now in reality, I saw a red and a green wrestler.  I do not care if I coached a kid for 10 years, knew the family, or it was the first time ever seeing the person.  Now the issue is I enjoy coaching the team I have more than I used to enjoy officiating.  Though that is not to say if I moved away from NWI/Chicagoland area, that I would not ever want to officiate again.

 

I'll add to this.  It's a very good point.  I know there are exceptions to every rule, but I can honestly say I never worked with anyone I felt used biases to affect the way they called a game.  I can unequivocally say I worked with some bad or lazy officials, however.  I won't lie and say there are times I would show up to the ballpark and see the other official (I didn't always know who my partner would be) and cringed, knowing it may be a long day.  But just because an official makes a bad call doesn't make him/her biased or bad at the job.  Mistakes do happen.  Good officials more often than not know when they've screwed up.  But you have to move forward and can't try to rewind.  

 

But by and large officials are there to do a job and do it well.  I umpired HS games with my younger brother playing, called college games with former teammates playing and even semipro games for the team I formerly played on.  NEVER did I make a call based on what team was involved.  In fact, I semi kicked myself after the fact a few times, but when you are in the moment you are making a call based on what you see.  The participants don't come into play.  That moment moves fast enough that your brain process what is happening at that's it.  The right call is where your focus is.  Seconds after you make the call is when you realize how it may have affected a certain team.  And never did I consciously "make up" a call.  Once a call is done, it's done.  It may seem that way to fans, but it's hard enough just to make the call without having to think about the other stuff.  In baseball you had time between plays to think.  Wrestling you don't most times.  So I would think there is even less of a chance bias comes into play, but can't speak to that with authority.

 

I'd suggest to fans is to know and understand that referees care about the job.  The ones that are there for the money only or going through the motions weed themselves out pretty quickly.  They want to make the right call and want to leave feeling they did a great job.  They may wish one team won or lost after the fact, but in the moment they are doing what they are trained to do without bias.  If you can believe this and know that officials want to do a great job maybe you can see things a bit differently.  

 

Also, remember officials are seeing things much closer and at a different angle than you are and much of the time you are yelling at him/her about a call you are actually the one that is wrong.  That is proven by the fact there is always somebody yelling!

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Similar experience with baseball...started doing LL in high school and did 2 games/nite/2days a week. Made as much, if not more, than working an entire week of shifts at McD's! Plus, was able to go to the beach during the day, go work the games from 6 to about 10pm..go hang out with the buds after. Did it up until about 4 years ago when even the 6-10 year old LL parents became maniacal and the arseache didn't justify the $$ anymore. Penn has their HS kids ref the elem duals for the school system and it is great experience and hope a lot of programs do it. You either take to it or you don't, but even if 2-3 do maybe we can offset the officiating decline.

 

Agree.  I started doing JuCo games in February, mixed in HS games and then moved to Legion and older summer leagues and ended the season with LL All-Star tournaments in August.  It gave me all the spending money I needed while in college.  

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