Jump to content

Boycott Freestyle State


Sig40

Recommended Posts

It's been said a couple of times already I think but if Freestyle is something the ISWA wants to get back to in Indiana, then the focus and push will need to change.  I think Freestyle is great.  Loved it back in the late 80's and early 90's...it helped develop me at a very fast rate.  But back then, that's all there was.  Part of the problem is they started changing the rules and just made it really stupid IMO.  I think it is back to being what it once was, but all the rule changes turned a lot of people off to it.

 

Having said that...here is my 2 cents to pushing Freestyle again:

 

1.  Folkstyle Season for PeeWee-Schoolboy's will be November and December.  Tournaments can start the beginning of November and end just before Christmas Break.  We don't need to have a state tournament...we have too many "state" and "national' tournaments.  Just wrestle.  If you want to have a state tournament, then make the local tournaments a qualifier for the final one in December.

 

2.  January to IHSAA State Finals- Training for freestyle/Greco technique and rules interpretation.  Train your officials and pairings people.  No tourneys.  It's a proven fact that our kids wrestle too much and don't practice enough.  Ask any other country in the world and they will tell you we do the exact opposite of what they do.  We do not get the results other countries do...hmmm.

 

3.  February - March: Freestyle/Greco tournaments only.  

 

4.  April - Freestyle and Greco State

 

5.  Late April - ??: Training and more training for those kids that make the Fargo teams or any other types of teams.

 

I'm still thinking through some things but those are some rough toughts.  I'm telling you right now, kids will train freestyle if they want to get better.  Those that don't, will see a noticeable difference in their HS seasons and they will get on board.  If they don't, they will get passed by.  

 

Thoughts??

Edited by Clint Gard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good points Clint!  I like how you break the seasons down, I also thought about something and how hard it is to teach my beginning guys to actually control what they are doing.  My peewees and bantams especially.  I have found it is much easier to teach those little guys freestyle(club level not academy), than it is folkstyle, they roll around a lot anyways. I wish we could spend those first few years just teaching them freestyle and then add in folkstyle as they get a older.  I know thats my wishful thinking, but it will never happen.

 

I commend those Academy coaches that can get those little guys to comprehend everything at such a young age.  Ryan Parrish builds one of the best programs in the nation with little guys, and I have no idea how he does it.  RWA, MCWC, and the other Indy guys are doing a great job as well, just notice a lot more with the Contenders. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Blane!  I can't speak for anyone, but we've had success with the little guys just by exposure and working on position wrestling more than just drill and wrestle.

 

Joe, I agree and I knew when I typed it, it is probably a pipe dream but I at least wanted to throw the idea out there.  I alluded to the fact that you could still do a state tournament, it would just have to look different that's for sure.  I think it is feasible and worth discussing.

 

Clint

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why you need to have State before Central Regionals...according to all the documentation i found on https://usawevents.sportngin.com/page/show/1019235-central-regional-championships there is no qualification necessary.  

 

As for the Schoolboy Duals team you could host a wrestle off much like what they do with the Heartland Duals. Ryan Parrish has done an amazing job with that system. 

 

I think again the main failure here is the lack of communicating with the customers (wrestlers and their parents). Board members are on this forum and see what is said, the argument of "go to a meeting to explain your issues" is just simply dated at this point. We live in a world where constructive dialog can be had with people from all over the state and world the problem is if people are not willing to have that dialog we end up in the state we are in now and people are shaky about the decisions being made.

 

The VOLUNTEERS at the ISWA do a great job and I do believe they have the best of intentions but there is definitely an evolution that could happen to truly help elevate the state to the next level and help mend this clear rift that is forming between it and the wrestler/parents. 

 

In the end I hope we can continue to grow and improve.

 

These are just my observations. Could be right could be wrong but nothing hurts discussing them.

I stated that it would be helpful to have state before regionals, not that it is required.  Some regionals are earlier than ours, and there are state tournaments after them.  However, it makes more sense to build to higher level tournaments (state then regionals then nationals), thus "helpful".

 

Having a separate schoolboy duals qualifier would cause more work for those volunteers that is unnecessary.  It also adds another weekend that people would be forced to attend a tournament, pay for hotels, etc.  This whole thread is about people complaining about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why you need to have State before Central Regionals...according to all the documentation i found on https://usawevents.sportngin.com/page/show/1019235-central-regional-championships there is no qualification necessary.  

 

As for the Schoolboy Duals team you could host a wrestle off much like what they do with the Heartland Duals. Ryan Parrish has done an amazing job with that system. 

 

I think again the main failure here is the lack of communicating with the customers (wrestlers and their parents). Board members are on this forum and see what is said, the argument of "go to a meeting to explain your issues" is just simply dated at this point. We live in a world where constructive dialog can be had with people from all over the state and world the problem is if people are not willing to have that dialog we end up in the state we are in now and people are shaky about the decisions being made.

 

The VOLUNTEERS at the ISWA do a great job and I do believe they have the best of intentions but there is definitely an evolution that could happen to truly help elevate the state to the next level and help mend this clear rift that is forming between it and the wrestler/parents. 

 

In the end I hope we can continue to grow and improve.

 

These are just my observations. Could be right could be wrong but nothing hurts discussing them.

State after regionals would be great and it could count as a qualifier.  Might help the attendance, which I noticed was awful when it was in indy.

 

I think a tryout for schoolboy duals is the best idea anyone has stated so far.  It is the only way to insure that Indiana gets the best kids at that event.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

As for the Schoolboy Duals team you could host a wrestle off much like what they do with the Heartland Duals. Ryan Parrish has done an amazing job with that system. 

 

cough cough.... Mattyb's system!!! Haha

 

But.... yes I Agree. There is no better way to get your best team. It allows kids to wrestle off at two weight classes. I set it up like that to ensure two studs don't knock each other out of a number one spot.

 

Kids are in and out in two hours. Then the next group comes in. Four weight classes at a time two mats. If you don't make a spot at one weight class.... you stay for the next session and try again. Can only wrestle up one weight class. This system is producing elementary dual teams which are finishing higher than any other of our dual teams (on average). The hardest part is squashing all the politics and beefs and getting kids to come tryout.

Edited by Mattyb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cough cough.... Mattyb's system!!! Haha

 

But.... yes I Agree. There is no better way to get your best team. It allows kids to wrestle off at two weight classes. I set it up like that to ensure two studs don't knock each other out of a number one spot.

cough cough cough.........jmill perfected the MattyB system.......hahaha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cough cough.... Mattyb's system!!! Haha

 

But.... yes I Agree. There is no better way to get your best team. It allows kids to wrestle off at two weight classes. I set it up like that to ensure two studs don't knock each other out of a number one spot.

 

lol my fault! I only started noticing it when Ryan was running it. #thecounty 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love Coach Guards outline for the seasons.  I would like to throw out the freestyle dual format.  Having duals would allow kids to get more than 1 or 2 matches when you have 6 or more full teams registered before tournament.  It would help prevent kids from not being coached because there were three other club kids wrestling at the same time in two different gyms.  Allows wrestlers to use a full mat with the whole team watching each individual match. With the numbers not nearly as large as folkstyle I would like believe that teams could be categorized pee wee/ bantam, intermediate/novice, and schoolboy/cadet and fill full rosters.  I just feel freestyle would benefit more from using duals for qualifiers and grow the attendance tournaments. I hope clubs/schools start having more of these.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ISWA dropped the ball once again. Forcing people to do things is the absolute wrong way to do it.  There are five weekends with tournament with this weekend's only events being two day tournaments. Nothing better to do than spend your weekend in a gym. Add to that kids that have lives outside of wrestling or simply want to have a free weekend during the spring. Sometimes I wonder what kind of fantasy land the ISWA board members live in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure which thread to post this inquiry to...

 

Can someone who might have went thru it last year explain the waiver process? I can't seem to find the policy/procedure on the ISWA site. I'm assuming a medical procedure would qualify but have no idea how or what needs to be filled in or what forms need to be produced. Thanks in advance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Per the ISWA website 

http://www.iswa.com/freestyle-state-qualification/

 

Don’t forget that in order to compete at the ISWA Freestyle State tournament this May you must wrestle in a minimum of 2 local freestyle events.   There will be no exceptions to this qualification process.

 

 

So it looks like you are SOL if a kid has an injury, SAT, Prom, Church retreat...no excuses by the ISWA "this" year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no longer an iswa board member so I'm out of the loop. With this said... Has anyone actually called a board member. To be honest... Very few board members get on this site (with exception to my brother Jmill). Also... I have been at every ISWA freestyle and Greco state for over a decade. Very few people if any actually walk up to the state chair or vice chairs and discuss stuff like this man to man. I'm not taking sides on this issue, but I would like to see some of the people that are crazy vocal on this message board, pick up there phone and call the powers to be. Or.... Better yet talk to them person to person. I can not say without a doubt that this will help or solve the problem, but.... I assure you that it will solve more issues than getting on this board a spewing venom. Again, I'm not taking sides in this matter, but if people feel this passionate about the issue I would love to hear how a conversation goes between them and a chair at the iswa.

 

Btw... That's how I became a board member to start with. I had concerns and ideas. I went to the iswa with my ideas, and they thought they were good. They then asked if I could give of myself to make wrestling better here, and I gladly stepped up and did what I could.

 

This message is not geared to anyone.... So, please do not take it the wrong way. The bottom line is this... Don't talk about it be about it!

Edited by Mattyb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest issue is that the Folkstyle season is almost twice as long as Freestyle yet they put this restriction out there to "improve numbers" (which cost them 140 athletes last year).  It's the lack of communication which is frustrating...the Facebook and Twitter seem almost worthless unless you want sick Retweets and Shares of wrestling related things or a single schools events. Here is the post about this very thing with concerns and questions from the wrestlers/wrestlers parents yet no responses...It seems like a Public Relations Mess.

 

.iswa2.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no longer an iswa board member so I'm out of the loop. With this said... Has anyone actually called a board member. To be honest... Very few board members get on this site (with exception to my brother Jmill). Also... I have been at every ISWA freestyle and Greco state for over a decade. Very few people if any actually walk up to the state chair or vice chairs and discuss stuff like this man to man. I'm not taking sides on this issue, but I would like to see some of the people that are crazy vocal on this message board, pick up there phone and call the powers to be. Or.... Better yet talk to them person to person. I can not say without a doubt that this will help or solve the problem, but.... I assure you that it will solve more issues than getting on this board a spewing venom. Again, I'm not taking sides in this matter, but if people feel this passionate about the issue I would love to hear how a conversation goes between them and a chair at the iswa.

 

Btw... That's how I became a board member to start with. I had concerns and ideas. I went to the iswa with my ideas, and they thought they were good. They then asked if I could give of myself to make wrestling better here, and I gladly stepped up and did what I could.

 

This message is not geared to anyone.... So, please do not take it the wrong way. The bottom line is this... Don't talk about it be about it!

It's sad the board members are reluctant to see what the people are taking about. Again, it seems they live in a fantasy world and aren't seeing the big picture EVEN after last year's fiasco.

 

I did send an email, but am not holding my breath on any action being taken other than being even deeper on their poop list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no longer an iswa board member so I'm out of the loop. With this said... Has anyone actually called a board member. To be honest... Very few board members get on this site (with exception to my brother Jmill). Also... I have been at every ISWA freestyle and Greco state for over a decade. Very few people if any actually walk up to the state chair or vice chairs and discuss stuff like this man to man. I'm not taking sides on this issue, but I would like to see some of the people that are crazy vocal on this message board, pick up there phone and call the powers to be. Or.... Better yet talk to them person to person. I can not say without a doubt that this will help or solve the problem, but.... I assure you that it will solve more issues than getting on this board a spewing venom. Again, I'm not taking sides in this matter, but if people feel this passionate about the issue I would love to hear how a conversation goes between them and a chair at the iswa.

 

Btw... That's how I became a board member to start with. I had concerns and ideas. I went to the iswa with my ideas, and they thought they were good. They then asked if I could give of myself to make wrestling better here, and I gladly stepped up and did what I could.

 

This message is not geared to anyone.... So, please do not take it the wrong way. The bottom line is this... Don't talk about it be about it!

 

I mentioned earlier that I think all these people have the best of intentions they are just a little lost right now. They need to look at this board. It is where 99% of their members get together and discuss Indiana Wrestling. A good business tactic is to know your customer and right now it just seems like they don't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no longer an iswa board member so I'm out of the loop. With this said... Has anyone actually called a board member. To be honest... Very few board members get on this site (with exception to my brother Jmill). Also... I have been at every ISWA freestyle and Greco state for over a decade. Very few people if any actually walk up to the state chair or vice chairs and discuss stuff like this man to man. I'm not taking sides on this issue, but I would like to see some of the people that are crazy vocal on this message board, pick up there phone and call the powers to be. Or.... Better yet talk to them person to person. I can not say without a doubt that this will help or solve the problem, but.... I assure you that it will solve more issues than getting on this board a spewing venom. Again, I'm not taking sides in this matter, but if people feel this passionate about the issue I would love to hear how a conversation goes between them and a chair at the iswa.

 

Btw... That's how I became a board member to start with. I had concerns and ideas. I went to the iswa with my ideas, and they thought they were good. They then asked if I could give of myself to make wrestling better here, and I gladly stepped up and did what I could.

 

This message is not geared to anyone.... So, please do not take it the wrong way. The bottom line is this... Don't talk about it be about it!

 

Matt - I spoke with the big guy from the southern reaches of the state regarding this inane rule at the 2015 FK state meet at BD. I had also previously contacted 2 regional reps and neither replied back via the email address listed on the ISWA website. Neither did any good.

 

So, now I'm headed up to Columbia City this weekend with my son, who will not have any matches b/c of his age/wt class. Then, having Easter weekend off, then USAW Nationals, AAU Elementary Duals, then Heartland Duals and hopefully get one tournament in before the second weekend in May. All the while, missing an opportunity at OH TOC or Viper Pit b/c of having to go to a local FS tournament with no matches.  

 

There was a thread last year (too lazy too look it up) that discussed that most of the #bangers get more from their academy practices than from these local tournaments. Not sure if that is the way to go, but definitely having a requirement for 2 local tournaments is a bit antiquated...

 

So... what is the resolution?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matt - I spoke with the big guy from the southern reaches of the state regarding this inane rule at the 2015 FK state meet at BD. I had also previously contacted 2 regional reps and neither replied back via the email address listed on the ISWA website. Neither did any good.

 

So, now I'm headed up to Columbia City this weekend with my son, who will not have any matches b/c of his age/wt class. Then, having Easter weekend off, then USAW Nationals, AAU Elementary Duals, then Heartland Duals and hopefully get one tournament in before the second weekend in May. All the while, missing an opportunity at OH TOC or Viper Pit b/c of having to go to a local FS tournament with no matches.  

 

There was a thread last year (too lazy too look it up) that discussed that most of the #bangers get more from their academy practices than from these local tournaments. Not sure if that is the way to go, but definitely having a requirement for 2 local tournaments is a bit antiquated...

 

So... what is the resolution?

There have been many suggested, quite simply they need to encourage participation, NOT discourage it.

 

I like that they would charge $40 for state and give you a $10 discount(up to two) for participating in a local event. Then the extra money they make they can filter to the programs that host events or put it in a Fargo fund. Now they aren't forcing people to go to local events, but it definitely would help get them there. 

 

Right now kids/parents look at the calendar and say they can't make two events so they go to ZERO. With my awesome plan they can say, well we can go to one and that will help with the cost.

 

Of course this was suggested last year, but the big wigs don't read the board so they don't see ideas like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 With the numbers not nearly as large as folkstyle I would like believe that teams could be categorized pee wee/ bantam, intermediate/novice, and schoolboy/cadet and fill full rosters.  I just feel freestyle would benefit more from using duals for qualifiers and grow the attendance tournaments. I hope clubs/schools start having more of these.

 

For the elementary dual format you could just do weights and age groups of K-6th.  If you had some extra kids at certain weights you could just work them in as alternates.  Not a bad idea.  It might be hard to fill teams.  I guess you could post on here asking to fill weights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a thread last year (too lazy too look it up) that discussed that most of the #bangers get more from their academy practices than from these local tournaments.

So... what is the resolution?

And I believe that is one of the big issue the ISWA is trying to solve. How do we get more wrestlers and better competition at the local tournaments? When numbers and talent levels are low at these local events (especially compared to what you get out of a club/academy practice) many people don't believe it's worth their time to take an extra day out of their week, pay more money, and get just a couple low quality matches in after several hours of wait time. That thought process has created a domino effect which has leaded to the low number of events we have had in the last few years and several clubs no longer hosting events.

 

The ISWA is attempting to figure out a solution to draw these club/academy kids to more local tournaments. This will tincrease the events depth and thus attract other wrestlers to attend. Thus improving participating numbers state wide, which will lead to more clubs wanting hosting events, and improve IN's Freestyle/Greco level as a whole.

 

The ISWA current idea to improve numbers is the 2 event rule to participate in state. Obviously this is not a solution that everyone agrees with. But, from what I am seeing the biggest complaint about this isn't the 2 event rule, but rather the low number of events and limited time frame in which a participant have to fulfill the requirement. Hopefully the ISWA will notice this and take those two issue (length of season and events available within a reasonable distance) into consideration in the future.

 

Clearly there are other states which found solutions to this same issue that still allow them to field competitive national teams.

Edited by MattM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I believe that is one of the big issue the ISWA is trying to solve. How do we get more wrestlers and better competition at the local tournaments? When numbers and talent levels are low at these local events (especially compared to what you get out of a club/academy practice) many people don't believe it's worth their time to take an extra day out of their week to pay money ans show up. That thought process has created a domino effect which has leaded to the low number of events we have had in the last few years.

 

The ISWA is attempting to figure out a solution to draw these club/academy kids to more local tournaments. This will tincrease the events depth and thus attract other wrestlers to attend. Thus improving participating numbers state wide, which will lead to more clubs wanting hosting events, and improve IN's Freestyle/Greco level as a whole.

 

The ISWA current idea to improve numbers is the 2 event rule to participate in state. Obviously this is not a solution that everyone agrees with. But, from what I am seeing the biggest complaint about this isn't the 2 event rule, but rather the low number of events and limited time frame in which a participant have to fulfill the requirement. Hopefully the ISWA will notice this and take those two issue (length of season and events available within a reasonable distance) into consideration in the future.

 

Clearly there are other states which found solutions to this same issue that still allow them to field competitive national teams.

 

Yes that is 100% correct...you have 5 weekends to get 2 events in...Folkstyle however has 9-10 weekends (9 on our schedule the ISWA removes events after they happen so I cannot get a solid number) We have all suggested that they should move the tournament back to allow more weekends so they can work around the bigger national tournaments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.