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Boycott Freestyle State


Sig40

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Well I am back on the boycott freestyle state bandwagon after just wasting $40 on the Iron Eagle Columbia City tournament.I went to sign up for Penn's freestyle tournament on March 26th, but could not because they moved it to April 30th.FYI there are no other freestyle tournaments offered on the weekend of March 26th in Indiana.So we are giving 7 weekends to wrestle in 2 freestyle tournaments, but only 6 weekends offer tournaments.Now throw in 3 very expensive tournaments that are all supported by ISWA(National middle school duals, Heartland Duals, and USA Nationals) and you are down to 3 weekends.Out of those weekends one is Ohio TOC which is probably a better tournament then USA Nationals and Viper Pit Dual(Indiana is the defending champion).That leaves us with 1 weekend(Iron eagle), which I will just skip instead of paying for 2 nights of hotels and food.Thanks again ISWA.

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Easy solution would be to grant a waiver to any kid who wrestles in at least 2 out of these 3 events. (USA Nationals, Middle School National Duals, or Heartland Elementary Duals).  Both of these dual teams are ran by ISWA and the other tournament is their National tournament.

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That is your right to make that choice. Not everyone attends all those events. Probably very few will do all of them, so most people do not have to make the same choice that you are having to make. Continually calling for a boycott because you have an issue is getting old.

 

Also, those three tournaments are not freestyle events. You're not going to become elite freestyle wrestlers by competing in freestyle once per year at state. Qualification/requirements for freestyle state is not new. It's been around a long time. It was gone a few years, but steps are being taken to improve freestyle across the state. It's not going to be perfect for everyone but it will help the state as a whole.

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Sorry just seen this after posting in youth wrestling.

Here is my post from over there.

 

 

 

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Compromise over Boycott. Here is a solution. I challenge the ISWA Board to vote on this:

 

Any wrestler who is on any ISWA team going to National Middle Schools duals and/or Heartland duals should have an automatic exemption for one Freestyle qualifier per ISWA team event.

This makes sense if any freestyle qualifier is held on the same weekend as the ISWA dual team tournaments.

The wrestler parents are already supporting the ISWA by spending hundreds of dollars on the out of state tournaments.

If their kid is doing both, over a thousand dollars when counting all travel expenses.

Note that I stated exemptions not waivers.

I do not think little Johnny should get a waiver because he had a baseball game.

This is all about wrestling.

I like freestyle way better than folkstyle, but during the month of April, that is the prime month to seek out top competition for the younger wrestlers who are not Cadets or Juniors. Do not penalize these kids because Freesyle and Greco States are in May.

Most of these kids on these teams do not know off seasons and wrestle year around. They are at the Academy or Club training Freestyle and Greco. They already are training all styles for years to be ready for Fargo when they become Cadets and Juniors. They are the future of Indiana wrestling.

Do not preach to the choir. We want the same thing. Making Indiana wrestling better and better.

Edited by takedownartist
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What about go back to how it use to be?  Use to have to qualify by placing in the top 3 of a freestyle/greco meet.  Instead of making them go to 2, just say hey go place in the top 3 once some where.  

 

I think it is about the limited weekends in April to qualify for Indiana FS/GR when you are in Iowa battling the toughest competition available for Team Indiana, earned by ISWA Heartland Duals wrestle off winners and Middle School State Champions.

 

These kids would not break a sweat qualifying in the local F/S and G/R tournaments.

 

We are talking about future Fargo All Americans and Champs.

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Sorry just seen this after posting in youth wrestling.

Here is my post from over there.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Compromise over Boycott. Here is a solution. I challenge the ISWA Board to vote on this:

 

Any wrestler who is on any ISWA team going to National Middle Schools duals and/or Heartland duals should have an automatic exemption for one Freestyle qualifier per ISWA team event.

This makes sense if any freestyle qualifier is held on the same weekend as the ISWA dual team tournaments.

The wrestler parents are already supporting the ISWA by spending hundreds of dollars on the out of state tournaments.

If their kid is doing both, over a thousand dollars when counting all travel expenses.

Note that I stated exemptions not waivers.

I do not think little Johnny should get a waiver because he had a baseball game.

This is all about wrestling.

I like freestyle way better than folkstyle, but during the month of April, that is the prime month to seek out top competition for the younger wrestlers who are not Cadets or Juniors. Do not penalize these kids because Freesyle and Greco States are in May.

Most of these kids on these teams do not know off seasons and wrestle year around. They are at the Academy or Club training Freestyle and Greco. They already are training all styles for years to be ready for Fargo when they become Cadets and Juniors. They are the future of Indiana wrestling.

Do not preach to the choir. We want the same thing. Making Indiana wrestling better and better.

 

This is a perfect solution.  We aren't asking for a waiver or exemption bc we are doing something other then wrestling.  As I said before we were prepared to skip FloNationals to wrestle at Penn's freestyle tournament, but now there is not a freestyle tournament offered anywhere in Indiana that weekend. Penn moving their tournament to april 30th is going to hurt their attendance bc all the region kids that would have wrestled in it will be going to Hanover's freestyle tournament. 

 

GrecoCoach stated that me bringing this up is getting old, but I don't think I am doing enough.  My son has worked his butt off to make these ISWA dual teams as well as prepare himself for USA Nationals and Ohio TOC.  My kid loves to wrestle and because he wrestles every weekend he will not be able to compete at freestyle state, it just doesn't make sense.  He doesn't play baseball or football he wrestles and these next few weeks are some of the best wrestling weekends in the nation and I will not sacrifice him getting these amazing opportunities just to qualify for state.  I feel bad for him because now he won't be able to represent Indiana in the schoolboy duals, but I don't see any other way to get the qualifiers in. So please ISWA board members look into helping the kids that are wrestling every weekend get an exemption into your state tournament.

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 So please ISWA board members look into helping the kids that are wrestling every weekend get an exemption into your state tournament.

 

I am still trying to figure out who this 2 event rule is actual designed to help?  The kids? The clubs who host tournaments? The ISWA? 

 

It is not like there has been a huge resurgence of freestyle tournaments for kids to attend and they are just choosing to ignore all the tournaments.  

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My suggestion would be to make a formal proposal to the ISWA Executive Board. Talking about it here does not solve the problem.

 

 

 

 

This is a perfect solution.  We aren't asking for a waiver or exemption bc we are doing something other then wrestling.  As I said before we were prepared to skip FloNationals to wrestle at Penn's freestyle tournament, but now there is not a freestyle tournament offered anywhere in Indiana that weekend. Penn moving their tournament to april 30th is going to hurt their attendance bc all the region kids that would have wrestled in it will be going to Hanover's freestyle tournament. 

 

GrecoCoach stated that me bringing this up is getting old, but I don't think I am doing enough.  My son has worked his butt off to make these ISWA dual teams as well as prepare himself for USA Nationals and Ohio TOC.  My kid loves to wrestle and because he wrestles every weekend he will not be able to compete at freestyle state, it just doesn't make sense.  He doesn't play baseball or football he wrestles and these next few weeks are some of the best wrestling weekends in the nation and I will not sacrifice him getting these amazing opportunities just to qualify for state.  I feel bad for him because now he won't be able to represent Indiana in the schoolboy duals, but I don't see any other way to get the qualifiers in. So please ISWA board members look into helping the kids that are wrestling every weekend get an exemption into your state tournament.


I am still trying to figure out who this 2 event rule is actual designed to help?  The kids? The clubs who host tournaments? The ISWA? 

 

It is not like there has been a huge resurgence of freestyle tournaments for kids to attend and they are just choosing to ignore all the tournaments.  

It is to help the clubs who are hosting tournaments. It was designed to increase attendance so the clubs who actually stepped up wouldn't lose their shirt hosting an event.

Edited by grecoref
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Everyone here is interested in continuously improving the quality of Indiana wrestling.

The ISWA board members, coaches, parents, volunteers, family...we all witness the blood, sweat and tears poured into this sport.

Who doesn't  support our youth wrestlers?

Why make any top tier youth wrestler that qualifies for an ISWA team, choose between the tournament they just qualified or a mandatory local F/S G/R tournament?

No special treatment for any one kid.

One criteria: Any kid that makes any ISWA dual team, they have an exemption for that weekend since they are wrestling for the state team.

Any complaints? Well show up and make a team and you will get an exemption.

Win-Win.

You want the best true Triple Crown Winners?

Make sure your are not forcing an Indiana Team member to pick and choose tournaments.

Any parent will do whatever is best for their kid.

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I hate the rule, dealt with it last year juggling Nationals and trying to get 2 Qualifiers in but #teamgarcia did. Missed a few National Tournaments & Duals . Made commitments to (TOC & Viper Pit) then I had to back out .

 

WASN'T HAPPY with the waiver allowance last year for a "select few" after I was told they are not allowing it . So....... I'm glad they are sticking to their word this year. IT'S ABOUT TIME ISWA !

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My suggestion would be to make a formal proposal to the ISWA Executive Board. Talking about it here does not solve the problem.

 

 

 

 

It is to help the clubs who are hosting tournaments. It was designed to increase attendance so the clubs who actually stepped up wouldn't lose their shirt hosting an event.

 

 

These parents are spending thousands of dollars a year on travel expenses to out of state and Indy tournaments, academy and/or club membership fees, private coaching lessons, etc. for their kid to compete at a high level...why not have the same parents pay $20 entry fee to the local club (that is hosting the freestyle qualifier tournament they are missing) as a donation as a condition of exemption for the ISWA team kids.

This would lessen the host club burden and the team parents burden of schedule conflicts.

Win-Win again for the time v/s money issue.

Edited by takedownartist
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I was an ISWA board member for 12 years. No decision is made lightly. Lots of thought, discussion, and debate goes into everything they do. For your specific circumstances, it might not make sense. For the good of the future of the state, it does. If I was still on the board, I would have voted for this. I hope the ISWA doesn't repeat what they did last year and give last second waivers. Two years in a row will completely ruin their reputation for a long time. They should stand by the decision they made that is best for the whole state in the long run, not just what is good for your wrestler now.

 

Again, all these tournaments you're referring to are folkstyle, not freestyle. Practicing freestyle and competing in freestyle are very different training and preparation for the bigger tournaments. The point is to get more and better competition at the local tournaments to help everyone improve. It's not a change that is going to happen overnight. It's going to take a couple of years to get local tournaments back to the way they were 10+ years ago. I remember easily getting 6-8 matches every Saturday at the local events. We can get back to that, but not with your mindset that your kid is too good for that. When I coached Sliga, he had to attend local tournaments to qualify for state. That's the way it was so he did it. He didn't ask for an exemption because he was on travel teams and won national championships. He simply found a way to meet the requirements as they were set.

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These parents are spending thousands of dollars a year on travel expenses to out of state and Indy tournaments, academy and/or club membership fees, private coaching lessons, etc. for their kid to compete at a high level...why not have the same parents pay $20 entry fee to the local club (that is hosting the freestyle qualifier tournament they are missing) as a donation as a condition of exemption for the ISWA team kids.

This would lessen the host club burden and the team parents burden of schedule conflicts.

Win-Win again for the time v/s money issue.

Make the suggestion to the ISWA Board. I'm not a Board Member.

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Since there is a 2 tournament requirement shouldn't ISWA also require that atleast 1 tournament is available every weekend during this time?  We had the first 2 weekends set aside for the qualifiers, but now the 2nd weekend doesn't offer us a tournament.  When we decided to do Columbia City and Penn I then made a commitment to Indiana Outlaws to wrestle with them in the Viper Pit duals, which I will not break a commitment we already made.  Bailey has given my family a lot of wrestling opportunities and we won't leave them high and dry.  Plus my kid is really excited to wrestle on the same team as Hughes, BAM, Cummings, Parris, and Rypel(just a few I heard are wrestling on the team). I would be happy to donate money to Hanover or Penn if that would count. 

 

It is not about believing my kid is too good for local FS tournaments, it is whether or not the 6-10 matches against the nations best is better then the FS matches we will get. 

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Same crap different day.......ISWA wants everyone doing Freestyle/Greco, but holds a tournament that gets 2100 wrestlers that aren't doing either Freestyle/Greco.  They want the wrestlers (mainly parents) to take the leap and pay the extra money, time and sacrifice to support Freestyle/Greco, but won't get out of the Folkstyle business themselves.  Funny! Let me repeat FUNNY! This in business my friends will bankrupt you.  Having 2 types of companies 1 of which makes you great money and a 2nd that doesn't.  There are 2 choices any financial advisor would give you. Fold the second one that is not making money or sell the 1st one so you can put all your focus into the 2nd one. 

 

ISWA  keeps saying they want the best wrestlers, but limit the best from coming to the state tournament.  I know you won't take the above advice. So why don't you charge a double fee to people who show at the Freestyle State tournament that don't have 2 tournaments.  Then take that extra money and give it to the clubs that host freestyle tournaments.  Still make it mandatory for the Schoolboy/girl down like it was. You could even exempt you top 4-6 placers from ISWA Folkstyle (same year) or 4-6 placers from Freestyle/Greco (prior year).  Any of these ideas answers the lack of money at local tournaments, better kids at ISWA Freestyle/Greco state and conflict in schedules during the month and a half sport!

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I am still trying to figure out who this 2 event rule is actual designed to help?  The kids? The clubs who host tournaments? The ISWA? 

 

It is not like there has been a huge resurgence of freestyle tournaments for kids to attend and they are just choosing to ignore all the tournaments.  

 

In reality it seems this has hurt freestyle attendance in IN. The ISWA needs to see and understand this mistake and make it right. The old qualifying rule was much better. Why the hell would a kid have to qualify in freestyle and not folkstyle??? Just plain foolish and hurting the wrestling community at the same time. The ISWA has made some good moves recently, this is not one of them. We could bite the bullet and quality at one tournament but to spend the $$ to travel to another then do it again for FS State is basically holding interested wrestlers and their parents hostage. Im not wild about the boycott thing but in this situation it might be absolutely called for, and the right way to show your displeasure.

Edited by MCKAJC
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Why don't we ask the ISWA to move the state tournament towards the end of May? Give the clubs more opportunity to make money. Also gives the kids more opportunity to qualify. Make sure there are at least four tournaments per weekend in the four corners of the state with a fifth in Indianapolis.With 2100 kids at this weekends folkstyle state tournament, could the state of Indiana not come up with at a couple hundred kids for each venue to qualify?

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Why don't we ask the ISWA to move the state tournament towards the end of May? Give the clubs more opportunity to make money. Also gives the kids more opportunity to qualify. Make sure there are at least four tournaments per weekend in the four corners of the state with a fifth in Indianapolis.With 2100 kids at this weekends folkstyle state tournament, could the state of Indiana not come up with at a couple hundred kids for each venue to qualify?

The issues I've always been told about the mid to end of May are a) high school final exams b )  college and hs graduations c) Indianapolis 500 guests filling up indy hotels for a week.  At least to me, those seem like legitimate issues.

Edited by WaltHarris
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The issues I've always been told about the mid to end of May are a) high school final exams b )  college and hs graduations c) Indianapolis 500 guests filling up indy hotels for a week.  At least to me, those seem like legitimate issues.

Here are a couple more...

d) Schoolboy Duals are the beginning of June, which doesn't leave much time to organize and fill those teams

e) Central Regionals, which we host some years, is middle of May.  Helpful to have state before it.

 

When we were at the State Fairgrounds, we were locked into the first weekend of May each year.  Now that it is at a high school, it could be moved but not easily.  Bumping it to one week later would help as long as Central Regional can be bumped, too.

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Here are a couple more...

d) Schoolboy Duals are the beginning of June, which doesn't leave much time to organize and fill those teams

e) Central Regionals, which we host some years, is middle of May.  Helpful to have state before it.

 

When we were at the State Fairgrounds, we were locked into the first weekend of May each year.  Now that it is at a high school, it could be moved but not easily.  Bumping it to one week later would help as long as Central Regional can be bumped, too.

 

I don't see why you need to have State before Central Regionals...according to all the documentation i found on https://usawevents.sportngin.com/page/show/1019235-central-regional-championships there is no qualification necessary.  

 

As for the Schoolboy Duals team you could host a wrestle off much like what they do with the Heartland Duals. Ryan Parrish has done an amazing job with that system. 

 

I think again the main failure here is the lack of communicating with the customers (wrestlers and their parents). Board members are on this forum and see what is said, the argument of "go to a meeting to explain your issues" is just simply dated at this point. We live in a world where constructive dialog can be had with people from all over the state and world the problem is if people are not willing to have that dialog we end up in the state we are in now and people are shaky about the decisions being made.

 

The VOLUNTEERS at the ISWA do a great job and I do believe they have the best of intentions but there is definitely an evolution that could happen to truly help elevate the state to the next level and help mend this clear rift that is forming between it and the wrestler/parents. 

 

In the end I hope we can continue to grow and improve.

 

These are just my observations. Could be right could be wrong but nothing hurts discussing them.

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