WaltHarris Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 10 Reasons Why Increasing to 24 Wrestlers At State Helps Everyone 1) Increase IHSAA revenues (tickets and concessions) 2) More opportunity for small school participants 3) We compromise on the class wrestling idea to create a win-win 4) The team race would be more of a team competition 5) Brings Indiana into line with other midwestern states number of state qualifiers 6) Wrestling would still have less state final participants than track or swimming 7) Makes the state tournament more like our regular season tournament format 8) Eliminates the annual Jankowski/Rosbottom SS ticket round of death match the entire wrestling community sees as completely unfair and unreasonable 9) Gets us the SS 5th-6th wrestleback we want 10) Why would any practical person be against expanding opportunity? This will grow our sport. Related to the thread last year: http://indianamat.com/index.php/topic/47693-expand-number-of-wrestlers-at-state/ sammyg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Ihsaa is always willing to listen to buzzfeed esque advice gogoplata89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 2) More opportunity for small school participants Related to the thread last year: http://indianamat.com/index.php/topic/47693-expand-number-of-wrestlers-at-state/ The only thing is this would allow approximately 2 more small school kids per weight based on the past data. FYI, this past year there were 72% big school and 28% small school wrestlers that lost in the ticket round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nieman Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I could definitely get behind this. I hate seeing tough ticket round matches where both kids obviously are state caliber but only one can make it. And just like some 4th placers from regional make it to state, some 5th or 6th placers will find the podium every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 It's an interesting idea. What would happen to the 5th / 6th placers when they go to state? 24 wrestlers makes an uneven bracket, so are there "rat tails" with the 5/6 in it to face the 1 seed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtime Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Reason #2 is why I am against wrestle backs at the semi state level. You start forcing these smaller school kids to not only win 1(ticket round) but maybe even two matches that they weren't supposed to win. It will kill small school wrestling for good. Friday night at state a kid from BFE might bring 20-30 extra fans. While if it's just another perry kid there might not be more than 5 extra that show up. The ticket round is exciting and it helps the small school kids only have to win one time. Wrestle backs is just going to give the already dominate powerhouses more dominance. The big schools fans are going to show up. It's the schools that send one kid and 20+ fans to friday night that makes it great. Edited December 1, 2015 by overtime overtime and BNL Wrestling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 It's an interesting idea. What would happen to the 5th / 6th placers when they go to state? 24 wrestlers makes an uneven bracket, so are there "rat tails" with the 5/6 in it to face the 1 seed? Semi-state champs and runners-up would have byes. First round would be 3 vs. 6 and 4 vs. 5, with winners advancing to face 2's and 1's, respectively. It would be a very interesting setup. The 5's would in fact beat the 4's in the first round more than half the time (and there would be more upsets of #1's) since the 5's would represent the best of the "unlucky losers" and the 4's would represent the worst of the "lucky winners" from the quarterfinals at semi-state. I've done research into 10 years of state finals results, and the 5th place underclassmen at state outperform the 4th place underclassmen the following season, on average, by a reasonable margin. The same phenomenon of the 3-1 fifth placer being in fact better than the 2-2 fourth placer would be true for semi-state too. B. Alan, swain358, Loki27 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMILL Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 is the "rat-tail" comment a dig at region people like "on the rise 219" ??.........LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nieman Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I don't think the 5/6 placers would be able to bump anyone the made it to the semis out. It would just give the ticket round loses a chance to wrestle up to 5th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden death 7 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The goal should be to send the best wrestlers not the luckiest. Super_Fan, grecoref and BeastMode#31 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Bat Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 what would the state schedule be like then???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden death 7 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I am talking about wrestlebacks for kids that lose in the ticket round to work back for 5th place, then you take 5 from each Semistate to Friday night. Champions get a 1st round bye at state. I think that it would be worth the extra time to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I am talking about wrestlebacks for kids that lose in the ticket round to work back for 5th place, then you take 5 from each Semistate to Friday night. Champions get a 1st round bye at state. I think that it would be worth the extra time to get it right. Actually, in that scenario, everyone would get a bye except the 4/5's, who would have to wrestle pigtail matches before the main bracket would begin. I think a top 6 scenario makes more sense. Top 2 get byes at state and we essentially wrestle two rounds of the same length as the current first round at state. Doors open at 1pm. March out the teams at 1:45. Wrestle at 2pm. Easy-peezy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Bat Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Sounds great except the timing of the first day, it helps no one out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nieman Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Add more mats on friday night and timing isn't a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Add more mats on friday night and timing isn't a problem Very true. Using 8 mats on Friday night only would allow for Friday start/finish time to be exactly the same as now with 8 wrestlers left for a Saturday 4-mat plan as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 One thing to think about with this setup: it's probably only a matter of time before the IHSAA would want to consolidate regional/semi-state into 8 regionals from 4 sectionals each (16 per weight...top 3 go to state) OR 4 regionals from 8 sectionals that only take the top 3 from sectional (24 per weight...top 6 go to state) Two reasons they would want this: 1) regionals don't make money and 2) they believe there are already too many "chances" for wrestlers to advance despite losing matches through the tournament series. By getting the 24-to-state setup, we could be setting ourselves up for Square 1 again: 16-man brackets with no wrestle backs at 8 newly minted large regionals (In my personal opinion, if there were wrestlebacks at large regionals of this type, I wouldn't mind a 3-step tournament--especially if it meant we could negotiate getting a team event back again.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Bat Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 One thing to think about with this setup: it's probably only a matter of time before the IHSAA would want to consolidate regional/semi-state into 8 regionals from 4 sectionals each (16 per weight...top 3 go to state) OR 4 regionals from 8 sectionals that only take the top 3 from sectional (24 per weight...top 6 go to state) Two reasons they would want this: 1) regionals don't make money and 2) they believe there are already too many "chances" for wrestlers to advance despite losing matches through the tournament series. By getting the 24-to-state setup, we could be setting ourselves up for Square 1 again: 16-man brackets with no wrestle backs at 8 newly minted large regionals (In my personal opinion, if there were wrestlebacks at large regionals of this type, I wouldn't mind a 3-step tournament--especially if it meant we could negotiate getting a team event back again.) It is my belief that the three step tournament would take away one of the unique aspects of Indiana wrestling. Might as well take away out one class system too while you're at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It is my belief that the three step tournament would take away one of the unique aspects of Indiana wrestling. Might as well take away out one class system too while you're at it... I'm not saying it would be my personal first choice...I'm just saying I think there's a good chance the IHSAA would take a long look at it the moment state went to 24 guys. And proposals regarding 24 kids to state would be wise to have this in mind, in my opinion. Which aspect of the tournament, exactly, do you mean is unique to Indiana wrestling? The fact that there are 4 steps instead of less? (I'm genuinely asking; I didn't follow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Start Thursday night or Friday morning. #AnotherDayToBurnDownIndy Tskin and I are already on several banned Uber list in Indy, an extra day of madness would be awesome! tskin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I honestly believe that nothing can change until there is new management at the IHSAA. The current leaders have already shown they really don't have the desire to make the changes needed here and have flat out lied to peoples faces about what they will allow and not allow as far as progression for the sport of wrestling (I have no idea their relationship with a majority of the other non-major sports in the state). All this discussion is great but there needs to be a change in leadership to get any kind of real changes even on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Participation trophies for everyone. 24? Let's make it 32, 64, 128?. Make everyone a state qualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Participation trophies for everyone. 24? Let's make it 32, 64, 128?. Make everyone a state qualifier. Increasing the state tournament qualifiers by 112 = give everyone participation trophies....awesome analysis. We really should only allow the four semi-state champs to go to state. How about that? It's funny how when we increased the number of semi-state qualifiers no one said "ohh you're giving away participation trophies." Grenadier2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I mean we all know the NCAA tournament is just a participation trophy fest 42% of active athletes are "National Qualifiers" it doesn't even mean anything at this point.....compared to the few, the proud, the 5.1% of Indiana athletes earning State Qualifier.... No one said to place top 12 or top 16 which would maybe bring some possible truth to your argument. Would you prefer to only send 4 kids to state total? It'd make for a quick day which would be nice for my social life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Bat Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm not saying it would be my personal first choice...I'm just saying I think there's a good chance the IHSAA would take a long look at it the moment state went to 24 guys. And proposals regarding 24 kids to state would be wise to have this in mind, in my opinion. Which aspect of the tournament, exactly, do you mean is unique to Indiana wrestling? The fact that there are 4 steps instead of less? (I'm genuinely asking; I didn't follow.) the 4 step tournament, one class system... I'm fine with wrestlebacks, but leave the 4 step tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts