ENoblewrestling Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'll add to the whining by telling another story. Last spring I coached a girls 4x100 meter relay team that finished 19th in the state out of 27. Our time was the fastest in the history of the state for a school under 500 students from the research that I have done. I know its crazy to think that those 4 girls deserve a little more recognition than to say they got 19th out of 27. Track, much like swimming and wrestling is not in a healthy condition at smaller schools. Why would kids from your school deserve more recognition than kids with similar times that go to big schools? Did they work harder or something? I have no clue why your kids deserve any more recognition than big school kids who also ran very impressive times. How did they achieve anything that the other kids didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Why would kids from your school deserve more recognition than kids with similar times that go to big schools? Did they work harder or something? I have no clue why your kids deserve any more recognition than big school kids who also ran very impressive times. How did they achieve anything that the other kids didn't? Because those were four of the ten girls on the team. Because winning a state title would have rattled the cages of a lot of other girls roaming the halls who know they are as athletic as some of the girls on that team. Because if numbers continue the way they are, there won't be a track team at all any more. Why does the 1A All-State football team deserve recognition? Why does the Division II college tennis champion deserve recognition? Why does the champion of a small-school conference deserve recognition? Why does eighth place at state (ninth for track) deserve recognition? If you aren't better than EVERYONE then why should you deserve recognition for anything? Edited March 1, 2015 by Galagore GWCoach, bog190, Y2CJ41 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'm at the DIII regional at Wabash and boy you wouldn't know that these kids are qualifying for a classed national tournament. Fans are excited, coaches screaming, wrestlers laying it all on line. Of course many of you shun this type of classed wrestling. It's too bad because there are some tough kids and great wrestling. PatParham and stateorbust 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Gard Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Sam, Then why do you deserve recognition for going to team state? Why should you get to go...why not take Penn's Varsity B Team? Why do deserve it more than them? Clint Galagore and Y2CJ41 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
800lbs Gorilla Mama Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Wrestle for a State Champion, not a class state watered down champ. This is still America. Try hard. Don't be the little league (any sport) guy that has to see all the kids get a trophy so no feelings get hurt. Indiana does not have a perfect system, but we all know it going in. Try hard, complain less. Everyone does have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Cause 'Merica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Why would kids from your school deserve more recognition than kids with similar times that go to big schools? Did they work harder or something? I have no clue why your kids deserve any more recognition than big school kids who also ran very impressive times. How did they achieve anything that the other kids didn't? You already know the answer.... Why does Busco compete in the 1A team tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Cause 'Merica Don't care what side of the argument this is, but that side won. Best answer you can possibly give Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Cause 'Merica The appeal to patriotism argument never fails. Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Sam, Then why do you deserve recognition for going to team state? Why should you get to go...why not take Penn's Varsity B Team? Why do deserve it more than them? Clint The team aspect is completely different than the individual tournament. The team portion needs classed because schools with less kids are at a disadvantage when facing school with more kids, thus we need a team tournament. Individuals on the on other hand are just that, one person. Any one person from any singular school can be good. They are not at a disadvantage based on school size because they are one person. They do not need 14 people to be succesful. as far as the Penn thing goes, we are finding out the best varsity team in the state. We define varsity teams based on schools, so since Penn's JV is not their varsity they do not get the recognition that Varsity trams do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 The team aspect is completely different than the individual tournament. The team portion needs classed because schools with less kids are at a disadvantage when facing school with more kids, thus we need a team tournament. Individuals on the on other hand are just that, one person. Any one person from any singular school can be good. They are not at a disadvantage based on school size because they are one person. They do not need 14 people to be succesful. as far as the Penn thing goes, we are finding out the best varsity team in the state. We define varsity teams based on schools, so since Penn's JV is not their varsity they do not get the recognition that Varsity trams do. My example was for a relay team. Why can't your 14 work as hard and become as good as Penn's 14? Numbers are an advantage for the individual as well as the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 The team aspect is completely different than the individual tournament. The team portion needs classed because schools with less kids are at a disadvantage when facing school with more kids, thus we need a team tournament. Individuals on the on other hand are just that, one person. Any one person from any singular school can be good. They are not at a disadvantage based on school size because they are one person. They do not need 14 people to be succesful. as far as the Penn thing goes, we are finding out the best varsity team in the state. We define varsity teams based on schools, so since Penn's JV is not their varsity they do not get the recognition that Varsity trams do. My example was for a relay team. Why can't your 14 work as hard and become as good as Penn's 14? Numbers are an advantage for the individual as well as the team. I am going to go a step further and say numbers are an advantage for the team BECAUSE they are an advantage for the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) You already know the answer.... Why does Busco compete in the 1A team tournament? I honestly don't see why a person from Churubusco who runs 49.5 second 400 deserves more recognition than a kid from Penn who runs a 49.4 second 400. The faster person won, the school size doesn't matter. Now if your referring to the fact that your relay team was at a disadvantage I could completely buy that. Culver is at a disadvantage to Penn when it comes to producing a team of good 400 runners. That is an interesting grey area. If wrestling had a tag team, or summer slam style 5 man teams I think I would agree that portion should be classed.As far as why we compete in class 1 a for the team state duals, it is because we are at a disadvantage when it comes to producing 14 kids compared to larger school, thus the need for the team portion to be classed. Edited March 1, 2015 by buscowrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I honestly don't see why a person from Churubusco who runs 49.5 second 400 deserves more recognition than a kid from Penn who runs a 49.4 second 400. The faster person won, the school size doesn't matter. Bow if your referring to the fact that your relay team was at a disadvantage I could completely by that. Culver is at a disadvantage to Penn when it comes to producing a team of good 400 runners. That is an interesting grey area. If wrestling had a tag team, or summer slam style 5 man teams I think I would agree that portion should be classed. As far as why we compete in class 1 a for the team state duals, it is because we are at a disadvantage when it comes to producing 14 kids compared to larger school, thus the need for the team portion to be classed. So you are saying if each of your 14 kids is wrestling an isolated match against a Penn wrestler, they are not at a disadvantage. However, if they are all wrestling at the same time, they are at a disadvantage? Is that a fair summary? bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Gard Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 And I would argue that less kids in a program does put each individual at a disadvantage. I'm just using Penn because we are close to them and we see them at regional. But them having 75 kids in their roster is an advantage over Rochester with 22 kids. Yes, as a team and an individual. My Hwt who went to state had only the 220 and 195 to practice with. While I'm sure at Penn, their HWT had numerous partners...it makes a difference. You can't use the argument that the team is at a disadvantage and then say it doesn't affect the individual. And their varsity B team would probably win the class A title so my point stands. Why do you deserve it more than they do? bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I honestly don't see why a person from Churubusco who runs 49.5 second 400 deserves more recognition than a kid from Penn who runs a 49.4 second 400. The faster person won, the school size doesn't matter. Now if your referring to the fact that your relay team was at a disadvantage I could completely buy that. Culver is at a disadvantage to Penn when it comes to producing a team of good 400 runners. That is an interesting grey area. If wrestling had a tag team, or summer slam style 5 man teams I think I would agree that portion should be classed. As far as why we compete in class 1 a for the team state duals, it is because we are at a disadvantage when it comes to producing 14 kids compared to larger school, thus the need for the team portion to be classed. I was referring to the fact that our relay team is at a disadvantage...that is why I used it as my example. Numbers are an advantage for both teams and individuals. RAJR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 And I would argue that less kids in a program does put each individual at a disadvantage. I'm just using Penn because we are close to them and we see them at regional. But them having 75 kids in their roster is an advantage over Rochester with 22 kids. Yes, as a team and an individual. My Hwt who went to state had only the 220 and 195 to practice with. While I'm sure at Penn, their HWT had numerous partners...it makes a difference. You can't use the argument that the team is at a disadvantage and then say it doesn't affect the individual. And their varsity B team would probably win the class A title so my point stands. Why do you deserve it more than they do? The week of state finals, our state qualifier helps run middle school practice from 3:30-5:30. Practiced with an assistant coach from 5:30-7:00. Refereed a middle school meet because we didn't have a ref that night. Practiced one night from 6:30-8:00 in a private lesson. Is this what the Carroll state qualifiers had to deal with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Relay TEAM. I almost put something about it being a relay making the situation different in my original post, I wish I would have now. Anyhow as I said in my last post relay teams are at a disadvantage. Track would be more fair if the team portion and the relays were classed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 So you are saying if each of your 14 kids is wrestling an isolated match against a Penn wrestler, they are not at a disadvantage. However, if they are all wrestling at the same time, they are at a disadvantage? Is that a fair summary? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 So you are saying if each of your 14 kids is wrestling an isolated match against a Penn wrestler, they are not at a disadvantage. However, if they are all wrestling at the same time, they are at a disadvantage? Is that a fair summary? Penn has 4000 people to choose from. Churubusco has 400. 4000 is more than 400. In trying to put together a team of 14 Penn is much more likely to have 14 good wrestlers. On the individual side let's say that 1 in 400 people have the attributes needed to make it to state, it will make the math easier. If that is the case then Penn should have 10 kids who could go to state, Churubusco would have 1. I am saying that the 1 Churubusco kid is not at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldandbroke Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 So a kid from a small school busts his butt during the off season. Gets sharp as a kid from a big school with depth. Now the season starts. The small school kid has to beg a couple friends to come out for the team so he has a practice partner. The big school kid has a couple state qualifiers above and below him and a couple b team guys to practice with all season. Who do you think has the advantage at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) The week of state finals, our state qualifier helps run middle school practice from 3:30-5:30. Practiced with an assistant coach from 5:30-7:00. Refereed a middle school meet because we didn't have a ref that night. Practiced one night from 6:30-8:00 in a private lesson. Is this what the Carroll state qualifiers had to deal with? No. That's also not what any kid who I have ever coached who made it to state had to deal with either. I would work on your practice schedule I guess. Edited March 1, 2015 by buscowrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Penn has 4000 people to choose from. Churubusco has 400. 4000 is more than 400. In trying to put together a team of 14 Penn is much more likely to have 14 good wrestlers. On the individual side let's say that 1 in 400 people have the attributes needed to make it to state, it will make the math easier. If that is the case then Penn should have 10 kids who could go to state, Churubusco would have 1. I am saying that the 1 Churubusco kid is not at a disadvantage. There is absolutely no logic here. The Penn kid has another state qualifier and probably two that he trains with. To not admit this as an advantage is laughable. RAJR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Penn has 4000 people to choose from. Churubusco has 400. 4000 is more than 400. In trying to put together a team of 14 Penn is much more likely to have 14 good wrestlers. On the individual side let's say that 1 in 400 people have the attributes needed to make it to state, it will make the math easier. If that is the case then Penn should have 10 kids who could go to state, Churubusco would have 1. I am saying that the 1 Churubusco kid is not at a disadvantage. So if all of your guys are wrestling Penn guys at the same time, are they at a disadvantage or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 No. That's also not what any kid who I have ever coached who made it to state had to deal with either. I would work on your practice schedule I guess. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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