Troll Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You realize most states class individual sports. Not to mention stopwatch sports have qualifying times as well. Indiana doesn't. What does a qualifying time have to do with it? In swimming if you win your sectional you go to state, even if the winner doesn't pass the qualifying time. The qualifying time is only used if you don't win your sectional but are still good enough to place at state (similar to a wrestleback). I would put Indiana and Purdue in the same category as Wisconsin. We have two D1 schools for wrestling and Minnesota and Wisconsin only have one. I wouldn't give IU enough credit to call it a D1 wrestling program. I know a couple high school JV programs that could probably split matches with them in a dual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think it has. I think if you look at basketball participation only, you're not doing yourself any good. Basketball participation is as saturated as any sport in the country in Indiana. I just used basketball as a reference point... It just seems like the same teams in each class (of all sports) are the same teams doing very well every year. The growth seems to stop once a few teams start dominating. How do we keep this from happening? I am for 2 classes if we can do it right and in a manner that is positive for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I just used basketball as a reference point... It just seems like the same teams in each class (of all sports) are the same teams doing very well every year. The growth seems to stop once a few teams start dominating. How do we keep this from happening? I am for 2 classes if we can do it right and in a manner that is positive for the sport. That is when you look at TEAM sports, only 2 teams from each class go to the state finals in basketball. We have 100+ schools represented at our state finals, that means 100+ schools get to have parades through the hallways with their state qualifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chi Town Hustler Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am in favor of the Class System Indiana has in place currently 14 of them 106 - HWT. BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am in favor of the Class System Indiana has in place currently 14 of them 106 - HWT. Awesome, an oldie but a goodie. What about a one class system, all one weight! If the smaller kids want to be good they just need to work harder to beat guys like Streck and big Norman. bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am in favor of the Class System Indiana has in place currently 14 of them 106 - HWT. Clever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAJR Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Indiana doesn't. What does a qualifying time have to do with it? In swimming if you win your sectional you go to state, even if the winner doesn't pass the qualifying time. The qualifying time is only used if you don't win your sectional but are still good enough to place at state (similar to a wrestleback). I wouldn't give IU enough credit to call it a D1 wrestling program. I know a couple high school JV programs that could probably split matches with them in a dual. We don't have full wrestle backs. Also the qualifying time is across sectionals, it is not similar to a wrestle back. You are the one saying these sports are like wrestling, I was pointing out some uniqueness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 We don't have full wrestle backs. Also the qualifying time is across sectionals, it is not similar to a wrestle back. You are the one saying these sports are like wrestling, I was pointing out some uniqueness. I am well aware that we do not have wrestlebacks. I said in another post that we should. A qualifying time across sectionals is the closest thing to a wrestleback for that particular sport. So yes, in a way, it is similar. If the #1 and #3 wrestle each other Friday night the #3 should be able to wrestleback for third. If the #1 and #3 swim in the same sectional the #3 should be able to compete at state with his or her qualifying time. You cannot tell me these are not similar. The only thing I said about being like wrestling is that they are individual sports and have only 1 state champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am well aware that we do not have wrestlebacks. I said in another post that we should. A qualifying time across sectionals is the closest thing to a wrestleback for that particular sport. So yes, in a way, it is similar. If the #1 and #3 wrestle each other Friday night the #3 should be able to wrestleback for third. If the #1 and #3 swim in the same sectional the #3 should be able to compete at state with his or her qualifying time. You cannot tell me these are not similar. The only thing I said about being like wrestling is that they are individual sports and have only 1 state champ. So you are fine as long as we have one champion, even if we only have three teams in the state... College is classed, 40+ states are classed.....why are we one of the few holdouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 So you are fine as long as we have one champion, even if we only have three teams in the state... College is classed, 40+ states are classed.....why are we one of the few holdouts? That is a question I cannot answer because the system was put in place long before I was ever born. If there are only 3 teams in the state we should probably make 3 separate classes. The best wrestler on each team is crowned a state champion and then those three champions battle for Mr. Universe. BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The way I see it, classed gives kids that would be semi state level guys state placers and champions. A classed system just gives them those honors. And if there's an exceptionally good 1A wrestler, then he won't compete against the very best to win a title. And multiple state titles would ruin the mystique of our awesome state finals. charger.dad, grappleapple, Troll and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Also colleges aren't district or area based. Anyone in the world can come and go to any college in the United States. High School has a couple restrictions for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Please make sure you look at the PDF at the beginning of the thread and see how teams in your area might perform under this format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Please make sure you look at the PDF at the beginning of the thread and see how teams in your area might perform under this format. I saw it and yeah South Adams could have state champs, but they would win not facing the very best. That seems kind of like an empty win to me. BeastMode#31, charger.dad, fanatic46041 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The way I see it, classed gives kids that would be semi state level guys state placers and champions. A classed system just gives them those honors. And if there's an exceptionally good 1A wrestler, then he won't compete against the very best to win a title. And multiple state titles would ruin the mystique of our awesome state finals. "Ruin the mystique," but also would help grow the sport where it isn't exactly thriving. The average number of wrestlers on a 1A team is 9.89, 2A is 11.9, and 3A 13.4....that is a pretty big difference. I saw it and yeah South Adams could have state champs, but they would win not facing the very best. That seems kind of like an empty win to me. Just like that empty regional championship your team won this past year. Boy I don't know how all those kids in other states deal with their empty state titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 One of the arguments for classed individual state is that athletes at small schools play multiple sports, so they can't be year-round wrestlers. Classing the individual state championships is not going to change that. If you want to increase participation at the high school level, I think you focus on increasing participation at the elementary and middle school levels, and not by luring them with shiny medals and trophies. More of those kids will continue and increase participation into high school. In my opinion, it doesn't feel right that a kid finishing 3rd in his county tournament places at state by virtue of attending a smaller school. If your goal is to increase the overall level of wrestling skill within the state, then offer more free and/or low priced academies around the state for the younger kids. Setup more open live rooms, more beginner tournaments, and more chances to improve skill levels during the time when school size is not a factor. munges 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwoodjc89 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Call an Iowa or Pennsylvania or many other small class state champions and ask them if their state championship means less to them because they didn't get to be the ONLY state champ at their weight class. CollinsWrestler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Theres pros and cons to one class vs multiple classes. I know some people say its not broke, but thats only a point of perception. Some Pros would be: 1. One state champion, you know who is best. 2. Quality level of wrestling at state tournament. My biggest complaint about class wrestling is the watered down level. 3. Focus of fans on the tournament vs focus of multiple tournaments. 4. Easier to hold at one site and is at one site. 5. Competition pushes the best wrestlers to improve. 6. Tradition, thats the way its always been in Indiana so you have to continue the tradition. Of couse this could be seen as a con. Cons are 1. Takes a month to complete the state tournament. 2. Due to time restraints, wrestlebacks are not done, and as a result the best wrestler doesnt move on. 3. Small schools at an extremely unfair advantage when competing against big schools. This really drives down participation. 4. The narrowness of success discourages some kids from continuing to strive and continue. 5. You get less participation in the state tournament from most of the communities. 6. Since its a tradition in Indiana, then thats the way it has to be so everybody thinks its the best way because its always done that way. Keep in mind Indiana is in the minority of states that have one class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I guess I'm looking at this more through the Millers who know they can compete with the big boys and could place or win in an unclassed tournament. BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Call an Iowa or Pennsylvania or many other small class state champions and ask them if their state championship means less to them because they didn't get to be the ONLY state champ at their weight class. It should mean a little less. You can't be the champion if there are 2 other people also calling themselves the champion. The Olympics doesn't give out 3 gold medals because some countries have smaller populations. CollinsWrestler, BeastMode#31, Thor and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Theres pros and cons to one class vs multiple classes. I know some people say its not broke, but thats only a point of perception. Some Pros would be: 1. One state champion, you know who is best. 2. Quality level of wrestling at state tournament. My biggest complaint about class wrestling is the watered down level. 3. Focus of fans on the tournament vs focus of multiple tournaments. 4. Easier to hold at one site and is at one site. 5. Competition pushes the best wrestlers to improve. 6. Tradition, thats the way its always been in Indiana so you have to continue the tradition. Of couse this could be seen as a con. Cons are 1. Takes a month to complete the state tournament. 2. Due to time restraints, wrestlebacks are not done, and as a result the best wrestler doesnt move on. 3. Small schools at an extremely unfair advantage when competing against big schools. This really drives down participation. 4. The narrowness of success discourages some kids from continuing to strive and continue. 5. You get less participation in the state tournament from most of the communities. 6. Since its a tradition in Indiana, then thats the way it has to be so everybody thinks its the best way because its always done that way. Keep in mind Indiana is in the minority of states that have one class. How do you explain small schools who have success, and have good numbers? Everyone always wants to paint the picture that classed wrestling is a cure all for small schools, I don't see that as being the case at all. If we classed I don't believe that we would see a dramatic change in the number of participants at certain schools, some schools will still have a good number of kids, some still wouldn't. All classing would do is make it easier to get to state; nothing more, nothing less. It would still be celebrated, and be a big deal, but I don't see it changing the level of small school wrestling as a whole all that much. On a separate note would we also have a separate class for schools with less then five kids, or should they count for this classification? Edited February 13, 2015 by buscowrestling Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 It should mean a little less. You can't be the champion if there are 2 other people also calling themselves the champion. The Olympics doesn't give out 3 gold medals because some countries have smaller populations. But the NCAA does.... On a separate note would we also have a separate class for schools with less then five kids, or should they count for this classification? lol, I expected a comment like that from you. bog190 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 What's the medal split for the 2 class system for last year is it 50/50 I know champs its 12-2 do bigger schools out work smaller school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 But the NCAA does.... The NCAA has separate divisions based on the school, not the sport. You can have a small D1 school. It is also widely known that a D2 champion is far less superior to a D1 champion. Also, athletes usually choose where they want to go. If an athlete is good enough to win in D1 he is not going to choose to go to a D3 school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 On a separate note would we also have a separate class for schools with less then five kids, or should they count for this classification? The selection committee convenes for a unanimous "no" vote on this issue. Committee members will not be available for comment. Y2CJ41 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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