UncleJimmy Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I apologize for getting ahead of the game but I just saw on the ISWA site that a wrestler must participate in 2 local level tourneys to qualify for freestyle/Greco state? Is this new as I don't recall it as a requirement in previous years? I assume that would be to promote the local level events, which I get..but for styles not widely "accepted" might that actually do more harm than good as it seems hard enough to get kids interested for state let alone 2 other weekend events for those styles in the Spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It's actually going back to how it used to be somewhat. you use to have to qualify at weight by placing top 3 in a local tourney. I like it, local tournaments are dying, hopefully they'll spark back up now. poitup123 and Blane Culp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backtothemat Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 That will not help participation if true...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 It should help w/ Schoolboys and up that want to go on national trips in the summer. Folkstyle season has gutted Freestyle season, so I could see an initial drop off in Novice and below at Freestyle state. Blane Culp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I get that point. However, the ones that want to go on national trips aren't normally your fringe level wrestler. Those kids will now go to the 2 local events as its mandatory. The fringe kid and parent will more likely see 2 more Spring weekends in a stale gym and 2 more entry fees plus travel costs and say "no thank you". So at best it might be a wash..at worst it might hurt the numbers. Imop.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I can see that, once again I blame folkstyle season! Arrow77 and Blane Culp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I welcome this return. At madison we have had to cancel several local tourneys due to low numbers. I would love to see trackwrestling utilized more to use a ranking system based on tourney participation and head to head wins to get a qualifying # to participate at ISWA State. I know some will say that is insane but if you make something more exclusive rather than inclusive I think it will draw kids to it. Just a idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Wow...I finally agree with TripleB and tskin on something. I like the idea of it going back to having to qualify for state. Local clubs and tourneys have taken a hit. Some high school programs rely on funds from their clubs. I know ours is that way. We use to host some of the biggest tournaments in the state, now the numbers are so low that sometimes it seems pointless to host tournaments, and now have to look elsewhere to raise money. Blane Culp and TripleB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I like the idea in principal, but in practice what the ISWA just said is "No wrestler from northern Indiana will be allowed to wrestle at Freestyle or Greco State!" Let me explain why. There are only two FS/GR events in the northern half of Indiana this year. Penn on March 28 and Iron Eagle (Huntington North) on April 18. If a wrestler places 1st or 2nd at Middle School State in a couple weeks, then they qualify to wrestle on the ISWA Middle School duals team on March 28 at Danville, IL in the USA Wrestling Middle School Duals. This means any kid on the MS ISWA team cannot go to Penn for FS/GR. The ISWA 2 event qualifier will have the exact opposite impact then what they hope for. It's going to decrease FS/GR participation even further. Any wrestler from northern Indiana will essentially need to drive 2-3 hours to Indy on a couple separate occasions to get 2 FS tournaments. Heck, even if you live in northern Indiana, Huntington can still be three hours from you. This is simply totally impractical and will hurt us even more. I hope the ISWA changes this swiftly. UncleJimmy, Coach Peck, IntegratedCarp and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 And it's not just Middle School Duals. If a kid in northern Indiana has any kind of a conflict with Penn on March 28 or Huntington North on April 18, then the ISWA won't allow them to wrestle at FS/GR State. If a kid has to take the SAT on one of those Saturdays, or has a brother getting married, or has an unexpected funeral to attend, or has family trip, or has a track meet on March 28 or April 18 in northern Indiana, then they cannot wrestle at FS/GR State. Like the idea. I'm a huge proponent for FS/GR. But this doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I would love to see trackwrestling utilized more to use a ranking system based on tourney participation and head to head wins to get a qualifying # to participate at ISWA State. I know some will say that is insane but if you make something more exclusive rather than inclusive I think it will draw kids to it. Just a idea. I've pointed out before the idea of setting up a semi-state system (maybe 4 or possibly more locations) to act as a state qualifier. I've not worked out all the details of how that would work in reality but it was worth thinking about as a jumping off point. A wrestlers qualify for that semi-state by participating in at least one local tournament. Around the top 4-6 placers (depending on how many semi-states we would have) from each semi-state weight class are then qualified for the state tournament. With the top 3 semi-state placers being given separation criteria for state. If some kids don't show at state there is still enough for a multi-man bracket of decent size that event organizers can plan for ahead of time, instead of several having only a few kids while others numbering in the 30's or higher. It maybe even a way to better highlighted finals event for each age group at semi-state and state. If local semi-state participation is high it would even be conceivable that the initial entrance fee of that event also doubles as your state tournament entrance fee too. Positives The more localized semi-state would encourage a larger group of local participants to try the event who otherwise may always pass on the travel cost and difficulty of the state tournament. Those placing in the semi-state tournament would be more encouraged to attend the state event since it becomes a more exclusive event by saying you qualified for state. The claim of a semi-state placer and state qualifier also sounds great to promote local clubs in the news. More relatives would be willing to attend the semi-state locations because of their location compared to the longer drive and over night stay of the state event. That will increase attendance and concession sales. Being that state is more exclusive of an event some relatives may also be encouraged to make that next trip too. The semi-state provide a better overall separation criteria for competing in the state tournament than the current carry-over model does. The carry-over model may be beneficial for a determining semi-state separation criteria however. More local sites benefit from hosting the event through entrance fees, vendor, and concession sales. If local participation is high the ISWA benefits by being able to fund the state event through the larger overall participation at the semi-state. Encourages more local tournament participation to qualify for semi-state and a better quality of competition at the local semi-state tournament due to the talent level trying to advance to state. Draw-backs Having a tournament that participants must attend on back to back weekends. Or two out of three weekends if their is a week separation between events. Finding enough locations available for multiple semi-state's, along with officials and workers for each event. To only have one tournament entry fee (which I believe would help encourage more to continue on to state), the local participation at the semi-state would have to be high enable to to ensure the revenue covers both semi-state and state event. If not two separate fee's would have to be incurred which would put more on the fence about attending the state event where it may be a difficult and short day. Another option is to figure out what some of the other state are doing to get participation at local and state events. I'd say between states who have always maintained large participation and those state who have in recent years made great strides at increasing participation may have a few good ideas of what could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sorry didn't read Matt's response. But maybe some northern clubs can petition the ISWA to host a tournament. I think that there might be a decline this year at state, but an increase in local tournaments next year and then numbers will start to rise. Or just cancel folkstyle season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Not to hijack the thread, but why was this not a requirement for FK state? I know the high school wrestler's issues with FK state, but they could be granted a waiver. If ISWA wants to support the clubs, again which I totally understand, why not do it for FK where there is a larger number of participants so the monetary impact would be greater? Also, when was this going to be "announced" or made public instead of just putting it on the website flyer? Since it hadn't been done in prior year(s), a lot of people I assume would just go to the site and look for the date and make plans. As WaltHarris says, it's not like us up here can run to the next town and find an event..it's going to take some planning to be able to qualify! I support ISWA but it seems this might not prompt the result they are hoping for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 And it's not just Middle School Duals. If a kid in northern Indiana has any kind of a conflict with Penn on March 28 or Huntington North on April 18, then the ISWA won't allow them to wrestle at FS/GR State. If a kid has to take the SAT on one of those Saturdays, or has a brother getting married, or has an unexpected funeral to attend, or has family trip, or has a track meet on March 28 or April 18 in northern Indiana, then they cannot wrestle at FS/GR State. Like the idea. I'm a huge proponent for FS/GR. But this doesn't work. But in the same token if a kid has any of the conflict you listed, as well as, several others he may not be able to make the weigh-in day or the competition day of Freestyle/Greco state either. It really a matter of how the calender falls for each event on if each kid and his family are able to attend. So it seems to come down to a calendar conflict issue with anything the kid has going on rather than a matter of the qualification system being implemented. The other part of the issue sounds more like a matter of that area northern area needing to offer more local events for those wanting to participate. I'm guessing the area used to have more events, but would assume it has declined over the years as a result of low attendance. Figuring out ways to remedy that matter, the qualification system being one, may help to encourage more events to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I would guess b/c Folkstyle state and Folkstyle tourneys aren't hurting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We are trying to increase freestyle involvement by requiring wrestlers to wrestle in multiple freestyle tournaments? I know local tournaments help fund many wrestling clubs, but dont these same wrestling clubs also run folkstyle tournaments as well? I believe some even run HYWAY events... The results should be interesting... TripleB, you know you love folkstyle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I am all for having more northern FS/GR tournaments! But that won't happen this year. It's too late for folks to schedule them at this point. All that we have done here is put the kids behind the eight-ball and eliminated most northern Indiana kids from not only wrestling in FS/GR State, but also eliminated most northern Indiana kids from being on Team Indiana at Fargo. The Team Indiana roster this summer will look like an All-Star list from the Indianapolis area because almost no one from northern Indiana will be able to wrestle at State and get those coveted slots. If the ISWA wanted to make a big public announcement in the fall about this new requirement then it might work. It would give clubs and kids time to plan. But to spring this upon people in February when there are no other options in the north is unreasonable in my estimation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backtothemat Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Boo ISWA! Most spring sport athletes (Lax, track, baseball) have been eliminated as well because they don't have three weekends to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Boo ISWA! Most spring sport athletes (Lax, track, baseball) have been eliminated as well because they don't have three weekends to spare. It would seem like at least the HS spring sport athletes may have an argument for a exemption, due to other mandatory HS sports requirements. But, who knows where the line will be drawn, if certain exemptions are given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I am all for having more northern FS/GR tournaments! But that won't happen this year. It's too late for folks to schedule them at this point. All that we have done here is put the kids behind the eight-ball and eliminated most northern Indiana kids from not only wrestling in FS/GR State, but also eliminated most northern Indiana kids from being on Team Indiana at Fargo. The Team Indiana roster this summer will look like an All-Star list from the Indianapolis area because almost no one from northern Indiana will be able wrestle at State and get those coveted slots. If the ISWA wanted to make a big public announcement in the fall about this new requirement then it might work. It would clubs and kids time to plan. But to spring this people in February when there are no other options in north is unreasonable in my estimation. Concur. Worst part is it wasn't "sprung" on us by them in February. It was found by luck in a flyer. I would think that a nice banner on the website flashing "Changes to ISWA FS/GK State Qualifying" all year might have been appropriate! I've visited the site several times thruout the year but with focus on FK now, just decided to click the FS/GK flyer today. Maybe I'll just put a disclaimer on my posts, but again, I support the ISWA and might even be able to support this change going forward, but with little notice and no reason not to provide said notice on the website at least, it just seems strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I run a youth club, I didn't go to the fall meeting, I knew about this, it's not a surprise, nor was it sprung in the flyer. Did you or your club attend the annual meeting? or any meeting since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't know many 12 year old Middle School kids nor 70 year old guardians that attend the fall meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimmy Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 So we want to grow these styles but I have to be part of a club to participate and/or get the rules or parameters to participate in said styles, and then attend mandatory club events to qualify? Doesn't seem like an effective way to promote growth. What if a kid wrestles in Winamac (for instance) and is not part of a "club"? How does he or his parents get the info? Especially say if he went to FS last year, liked it and intended to go this year? They would be very disappointed to be told he could not participate this year because of the new rules only parsed out thru "clubs". I'm sorry, I'm off tangent. No I did not attend the annual meeting or any meetings after. In today's technological age I have to attend meetings to get info? What's another road trip on top of the 2 new mandatory ones?! Of course, maybe my 8 year old didn't tell me about the changes announced at "club" or didn't give/bring home the flyer the "club" gave out! Silly child.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yea i first heard about it last year at the ISWA annual meeting then it was announced again this year at the annual meeting. Also at last years State event I do recall hearing it mentioned several time by officials and coaches about the changes to come next year. Yea if a child isn't a member of a club than they prob wouldn't know unless they looked at site or the annual ISWA book that was mailed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMILL Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So if I understand you correctly Tskin.................the "new" information was available numerous places and numerous times to everyone in the wrestling community over the past year ?? So after watching the google hangout and seeing that Triple B still uses the paper forms of research he even still could have heard of the changes thru the publication ?? Interesting that people would say they had no way of being able to be made aware of a "new" change.............(insert lots of sarcasm here). Now the debate about a good or bad change can carry on and that is what this venue is for, but I believe the "new" or recently "sprung" information statements are just without any truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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