hook and half Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You can call it what you want, but I wouldn't call it a state championship. I do call it the best thing we have thanks to the IHSAA. Until all teams have a chance to participate you can't honestly call it a state championship. One has the ability to call something anything one chooses. By definition, that does not make correct, true or even accurate. Again, the title is "IHSCWA Team State Duals Champion". There are three divisions, 3A, 2A and 1A. Referring to it accordingly, is accurate, correct and true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You have a day off from school. Shouldn't you be playing Dungeons and Dragons? Yeah it's called multitasking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 One has the ability to call something anything one chooses. By definition, that does not make correct, true or even accurate. Again, the title is "IHSCWA Team State Champion". There are three divisions, 3A, 2A and 1A. Referring to it accordingly, is accurate, correct and true. Who defined it as a state championship? Last I checked, the IHSAA was the only governing body in Indiana HS athletics to make that distinction. The IHSWCA sponsored a "coaches trophy" in conjunction with the individual state tournament for years. The winner of the coaches trophy was not designated as state champions were they? I have no doubt Mater Dei would have won the dual state championship this year had the IHSAA held one. They didn't. What the IHSWCA held last weekend is the best thing we have. However, my issue is the lack of full inclusion of all teams (which I recognize is an impossible task). You call it what you want. I will call it what I want. I thought you didn't care? Huh? Put that IU degree to work and follow along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Who defined it as a state championship? Last I checked, the IHSAA was the only governing body in Indiana HS athletics to make that distinction. The IHSWCA sponsored a "coaches trophy" in conjunction with the individual state tournament for years. The winner of the coaches trophy was not designated as state champions were they? I have no doubt Mater Dei would have one the dual state championship this year had the IHSAA held one. They didn't. What the IHSWCA held last weekend is the best thing we have. However, my issue is the lack of full inclusion of all teams (which I recognize is an impossible task). You call it what you want. I will call it what I want. Huh? Put that IU degree to work and follow along. I think somebody is just a little jealous because his team didn't get to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 "Who defined it as a state championship? Last I checked, the IHSAA was the only governing body in Indiana HS athletics to make that distinction. The IHSWCA sponsored a "coaches trophy" in conjunction with the individual state tournament for years. The winner of the coaches trophy was not designated as state champions were they? I have no doubt Mater Dei would have one the dual state championship this year had the IHSAA held one. They didn't. What the IHSWCA held last weekend is the best thing we have. However, my issue is the lack of full inclusion of all teams (which I recognize is an impossible task). " IHSWCA can call their championship a state championship if they want. Who says the IHSAA has a monopoly on naming titles to tournaments or defining tournaments. The tournament is open to all the teams in the state, so this a good definition of state championship. Also the tournament does have full inclusion of all teams. The criteria for selection "basically returning points from prior year state tournament" is applied to every team in the state. If IHSAA doesnt want to host a dual state tournament, then why cant the coaches host one. IMO, this format is better than the old format. Why would you host the dual tournament at the same time during the individual tournament. Thats why good teams didnt put in their A wrestlers. Anyway I dont think Mater Dei gives a crap if the new trophy in their cabinet says IHSAA State Champion or IHSWCA state champion. They know its a legit state championship. Also curious the reason why the administraions at Crown Point and Merrillville didnt want to get into this tournament? Did they state why? Troll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think somebody is just a little jealous because his team didn't get to play Jealous that you didn't invite me to play D and D? FOR SURE!!!! Do they have an online version now? If so, that's got to be cool for you in high def. I am not affiliated with any of the teams mentioned in this thread. I'm just bored and It's cold outside... if only you had invited me to online game with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Who defined it as a state championship? Last I checked, the IHSAA was the only governing body in Indiana HS athletics to make that distinction. The IHSWCA sponsored a "coaches trophy" in conjunction with the individual state tournament for years. The winner of the coaches trophy was not designated as state champions were they? I have no doubt Mater Dei would have one the dual state championship this year had the IHSAA held one. They didn't. What the IHSWCA held last weekend is the best thing we have. However, my issue is the lack of full inclusion of all teams (which I recognize is an impossible task). You call it what you want. I will call it what I want. Huh? Put that IU degree to work and follow along. The IHSCWA sponsors the tournament; they get to name it. This format is far superior to the that of the IHSAA. As Wrestling Scholar points out, ALL teams can qualify based upon selection criteria. This ensures that the best teams get invited. Under the old format, if a team came through weak regional, they were team state qualifiers. Go through the IHSAA's website and look at some of the blowout scores. Many very strong teams were eliminated at the individual sectional. For example, in 2010, Reitz handily beat Mater Dei in the dual meet, but finished second at the individual sectional. As a team, Reitz was then eliminated. Had Reitz been included in a "dual" format tournament, it is not hard to imagine that they would have advanced to the state final. I'm sure that the same thing has happened to a number of Region teams, over the years. The ISHAA's confounding decision to not seed the old team state was laid bare a number of times as the number one team met the number two team in the first round. What a downer for the fans and the kids who lost, who truly earned a spot to compete in the finals, but were denied. The IHSWCA seeded the four best teams correctly, and the four best teams in the state were present. I will wager you would get little argument of the those facts from perry, md, wc or penn fans. BeastMode#31, KarlHungus, TheNextDynasty and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This ensures that the best teams get invited. There is another thread that would dispute that notion. Also, seeding increases your odds but it earns you nothing. Contrary to what you state, I don't think you can earn a spot in the finals other than winning, so we shall have to agree to disagree on that point, sir. I believe the IHSAA has stated on prior occasions their primary concern is crowning the state champion, not who gets 2nd, 3rd, etc. I am off to lunch, have yourself a great afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Jealous that you didn't invite me to play D and D? FOR SURE!!!! Do they have an online version now? If so, that's got to be cool for you in high def. I am not affiliated with any of the teams mentioned in this thread. I'm just bored and It's cold outside... if only you had invited me to online game with you Uhh yeah they have an online version? Do you even D&D bro? Puhlease. If you have no affiliation for any of the teams you shouldn't feel the need to credit or discredit their accomplishments. As Hook and Scholar have stated this format gives many more teams a chance at qualifying for a team state and that is exactly what it is called for a reason. It would be different if some random school hosted a tournament they called team state and only invited a few schools around their area. This is completely different. Every team in the state is considered and looked at. vito pepperelli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifffan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Actually, the title is "IHSWCA 3A Team State Duals Champion". This year, Region teams would not have made much impact at Team State (IHSWCA 3A Team State, for short). Portage appears to be the best team in NWI. They were defeated by Penn, 39-24, who finished third at Team State. It also seems unlikely that Portage would be able to beat Warren Central. Portage has beaten Cathedral, who tied for ninth and Franklin, who finished seventh. Portage would have been the fifth or sixth best team in the field, last Saturday. Crown Point or Merrillville would not have cracked the top eight. The IHSWCA seeded the four best teams correctly, and the four best teams in the state were present. I will wager you would get little argument of the those facts from perry, md, wc or penn fans. I'd wager that Warren Central would lose to all three of the top region teams. My reasoning, look at the Al Smith Results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Mater Dei......2015 Indiana 3A State Champions......end of story. WrestleMan and IU89 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Mater Dei......2015 Indiana 3A State Champions......end of story. Ok, back from lunch. I went with the ten traditional 3MI wings and curly fries special if anyone cares. Vito Pepperelli.....2015 Dungeon and Dragons champion....end of story. Actually, your championship and mine both have a lot in common - first and foremost being based on fantasy as opposed to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAT36 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 "This year, Region teams would not have made much impact at Team State (IHSWCA 3A Team State, for short). Portage appears to be the best team in NWI. They were defeated by Penn, 39-24, who finished third at Team State. It also seems unlikely that Portage would be able to beat Warren Central. Portage has beaten Cathedral, who tied for ninth and Franklin, who finished seventh. Portage would have been the fifth or sixth best team in the field, last Saturday. Crown Point or Merrillville would not have cracked the top eight." The Portage/Penn Dual could have gone either way with multiple matches decided by 2 points or less & both teams having key wrestlers out. The 39-24 score does absolutely no justice. Kudos to Penn for being the better team that day, they earned it. But my point is Portage very well could have went to the IHSWCA 3A Team State & placed in the top 3. Your assumption above is completely wrong! XCard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 "This year, Region teams would not have made much impact at Team State (IHSWCA 3A Team State, for short). Portage appears to be the best team in NWI. They were defeated by Penn, 39-24, who finished third at Team State. It also seems unlikely that Portage would be able to beat Warren Central. Portage has beaten Cathedral, who tied for ninth and Franklin, who finished seventh. Portage would have been the fifth or sixth best team in the field, last Saturday. Crown Point or Merrillville would not have cracked the top eight." The Portage/Penn Dual could have gone either way with multiple matches decided by 2 points or less & both teams having key wrestlers out. The 39-24 score does absolutely no justice. Kudos to Penn for being the better team that day, they earned it. But my point is Portage very well could have went to the IHSWCA 3A Team State & placed in the top 3. Your assumption above is completely wrong! I talked to some of the Penn people last Saturday; they completely agree with you. As a matter of fact, they went so far as to say the score should have been 39-24 with Portage on top. Given that Perry beat Penn on criteria, I have Portage defeating Perry, 39-25. Mater Dei beat Perry by four, so Portage would have beaten Mater Dei, 39-29. My strong recommendation to the IHSWCA is that they rename the tournament: "The Fake and Worthless Team State 3A Duals Championship Won By Some Pathetic Non-Region Team In Order To Prop Up Their Pathetic Egos, Because Had a Region Team Been There, We All Know That The Region Team Would Have Dominated The Pathetic Non-Region Teams, Because Region Teams Always Dominate The Pathetic Non-Region Teams....Like All The Time" Trophy engraving costs will increase substantially, but the flavor and significance of the tournament will be more accurately represented. TripleB, Troll, IU89 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I talked to some of the Penn people last Saturday; they completely agree with you. As a matter of fact, they went so far as to say the score should have been 39-24 with Portage on top. Given that Perry beat Penn on criteria, I have Portage defeating Perry, 39-25. Mater Dei beat Perry by four, so Portage would have beaten Mater Dei, 39-29. My strong recommendation to the IHSWCA is that they rename the tournament: "The Fake and Worthless Team State 3A Duals Championship Won By Some Pathetic Non-Region Team In Order To Prop Up Their Pathetic Egos, Because Had a Region Team Been There, We All Know That The Region Team Would Have Dominated The Pathetic Non-Region Teams, Because Region Teams Always Dominate The Pathetic Non-Region Teams....Like All The Time" Trophy engraving costs will increase substantially, but the flavor and significance of the tournament will be more accurately represented. Thanks for your profound statements and anecdotes; very enlightening. Maybe you should write a book? TripleB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAT36 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thank you for providing humor to all of this hook and half. In some peoples eyes it will be seen similar to the BCS, always in question. A lot of people put in a lot of hard work & we should not discredit that. Congrats to all the teams involved & to the 1A, 2A, & 3A State Champs. Just like anything else it's a work in progress. If you are not continually trying to improve you're not doing yourself justice. When will the talks begin for next years participants? Looking forward to seeing who will represent for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks for your profound statements and anecdotes; very enlightening. Maybe you should write a book? i like you vito! vito pepperelli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 i like you vito! You had me at hello.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You had me at hello.... i play the jack, you play the queen. i play the king, you play the ace. i play the ace, you put a frickin trump card on me... uncle! vito pepperelli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapplegirl Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I talked to some of the Penn people last Saturday; they completely agree with you. As a matter of fact, they went so far as to say the score should have been 39-24 with Portage on top. Given that Perry beat Penn on criteria, I have Portage defeating Perry, 39-25. Mater Dei beat Perry by four, so Portage would have beaten Mater Dei, 39-29. My strong recommendation to the IHSWCA is that they rename the tournament: "The Fake and Worthless Team State 3A Duals Championship Won By Some Pathetic Non-Region Team In Order To Prop Up Their Pathetic Egos, Because Had a Region Team Been There, We All Know That The Region Team Would Have Dominated The Pathetic Non-Region Teams, Because Region Teams Always Dominate The Pathetic Non-Region Teams....Like All The Time" Trophy engraving costs will increase substantially, but the flavor and significance of the tournament will be more accurately represented. Wow, you've really got some major Region hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backtothemat Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Read it again pressing tongue against cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierHustler Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This is sort of like those "Imaginary State Football Championships" Reitz Fans always talks about. If you have to make it up it actually doesn't count. I am a purest when it comes to the State Championship in wrestling. The way Indiana did it was flawed because it started with and individual tourneys results (sectional winners advanced) and folded it into a Team tourney from there. I enjoy the concept of having your strongest individuals decide the title because it is actually a 4 week process. You send your kids into the sectional, and it's survival of the fittest from that point on. Having said that, it is a great thing to have the current Team Tourney to give the kids better competition and more mat time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito pepperelli Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Wow, you've really got some major Region hatred. Hook and half has agreed to attend the Merrillville semi-state this year to see firsthand what Da Region is all about. 12 hours of bleacher butt, lack of seating, poor concessions, and getting yelled at and he'll be an honorary regionrat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvertone1696 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 It does get tight in there for the Mville semistate, we always eat elsewhere bc the concessions are subpar at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The old way wasn't flawed. It takes a strong team to win sectionals. After that level, teams w strong individuals can win from regionals on up. The old system was perfect combination. I should say the old, old way when 2 teams out of sectionals advanced to a 4 team regional, then 2 team SS, and 8 team state. If hook and half writes a book, I want a copy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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