mtv2112 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Just because you have some forfeits doesn't mean that the 103 weight class is not needed. You take away wresting for the smaller guys and you will see wresting decline greatly. It is not about moving it from 103 to 106. It is about moving it from 98 to 106. What is next. 110, 115, 120? If your argument is you need to go to the average size of say a Junior. You are going to have to go to 125 or 130. Wresting will become just like every other sport. Where size is the most important factor in success. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I love to watch the 103 class. Action, Action, Action! All I said was that you have to balance the two sides of the weight class change argument. I am not making the argument. That is the NFHS and whoever votes upon their proposals. You make a good argument but it is based upon emotions and not facts. Perhaps you or someone close to you is/was a 98 or 103. Why do you suppose that there is a proposal for a change? I don't think the illuminati, trilateral commission, and the council on foreign relations are somehow influencing the NFHS to screw the little guy. I am sure there is some substance to their proposed changes that involves some level of research. I also disagree that size is the most important factor in every other sport. Skill and desire are the most important factor in all sports. Size is maybe third, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 would this eliminate the 2lb allowance midseason??? Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwkwrestler12 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 So you want to water wrestling down more? Kind of ironic when you want class wrestling isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Kind of ironic when you want class wrestling isn't it? sarcasm may have been in play here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Kind of ironic when you want class wrestling isn't it? We already have around two forfeits per team as it is with 14 weight classes. Adding another weight class will not help that statistic. It will give big schools an even greater advantage over small schools than they already have. Adding another weight class will not help schools that are already struggling to fill their lineups(big and small). Adding another weight class will only create a bigger separation from the haves and the have-nots of the wrestling world. Class wrestling will help promote the sport at the small school level and give the small schools a leveler playing field in which to play. Classing the sport will help grow the sport by giving more kids an opportunity for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 All I said was that you have to balance the two sides of the weight class change argument. I am not making the argument. That is the NFHS and whoever votes upon their proposals. You make a good argument but it is based upon emotions and not facts. Perhaps you or someone close to you is/was a 98 or 103. Why do you suppose that there is a proposal for a change? I don't think the illuminati, trilateral commission, and the council on foreign relations are somehow influencing the NFHS to screw the little guy. I am sure there is some substance to their proposed changes that involves some level of research. I also disagree that size is the most important factor in every other sport. Skill and desire are the most important factor in all sports. Size is maybe third, at best. Yes I do have someone that will more than likely wrestle the lightest weight next year. But the fact is there are several very good wrestlers that are down very close or under 103. If you take away that weight they will have no place to go. There only choice would be to wrestle bigger kids. Everyone else will at least have to option of going up or down. As far as size not being the biggest factor in other major sports you are dead wrong. The highest level athletes all have the combination of size and speed. Desire is far down on the list. If you think desire is above size. You fall in either 1 of 2 categories. 1) Are a division 1 athlete with great size and speed 2) Never competed against a division 1 athlete with great size and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former130 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 These new guys are killing me!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Yes I do have someone that will more than likely wrestle the lightest weight next year. But the fact is there are several very good wrestlers that are down very close or under 103. If you take away that weight they will have no place to go. There only choice would be to wrestle bigger kids. Everyone else will at least have to option of going up or down. As far as size not being the biggest factor in other major sports you are dead wrong. The highest level athletes all have the combination of size and speed. Desire is far down on the list. If you think desire is above size. You fall in either 1 of 2 categories. 1) Are a division 1 athlete with great size and speed 2) Never competed against a division 1 athlete with great size and speed. Why do we need a weight that is predominately just for freshmen and sophomores? Why does my 145lbs freshman have to wrestle JV for two years, while his counterpart at 103lbs gets to be varsity for two years? Why are we punishing the bigger freshman and letting the smaller ones be varsity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Why do we need a weight that is predominately just for freshmen and sophomores? Why does my 145lbs freshman have to wrestle JV for two years, while his counterpart at 103lbs gets to be varsity for two years? Why are we punishing the bigger freshman and letting the smaller ones be varsity? For me it not about going from 103-106. Its about pushing out the smaller wrestlers. We already went from 98-103. Now we are going up again. At some point that has to stop. You of all people should understand that being small does not make you insignificant. I suppose if you want you can have a JV only weight around 100. That way these guys are not wresting much bigger guys. By the way. Many of your top Senior 125-135 pounders were around 100 as freshman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 As far as size not being the biggest factor in other major sports you are dead wrong. The highest level athletes all have the combination of size and speed. Desire is far down on the list. If you think desire is above size. You fall in either 1 of 2 categories. 1) Are a division 1 athlete with great size and speed 2) Never competed against a division 1 athlete with great size and speed. 1) Nope, although I have been told i have great size 2) Yep, but only after years of physical neglect has leveled the playing field. I have never been dead wrong. I was wrong on two different occasions, but no one died. Speed was never in the equation as you just added that, but you can have the unskilled heartless turds. You won't win much cause they won't practice very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 For me it not about going from 103-106. Its about pushing out the smaller wrestlers. We already went from 98-103. Now we are going up again. At some point that has to stop. You of all people should understand that being small does not make you insignificant. I suppose if you want you can have a JV only weight around 100. That way these guys are not wresting much bigger guys. By the way. Many of your top Senior 125-135 pounders were around 100 as freshman. So why do you feel a freshman that weighs 100lbs is entitled to a varsity spot that is more fitting to him than a freshman that weighs 145lbs and either has to cut hard or wrestle 160lbs for a varsity spot if he he even has a shot at one? Freshmen are supposed to take lumps when they join a varsity sport, not have immediate success and have a weight class that is almost exclusively for them. No one has said they are insignificant, they are saying that we need to curb the number of forfeits and make the weight classes better suited to the kids that wrestle. Is there something wrong with a freshman weighing 100lbs taking some lumps as a freshman, but perfectly fine for a 145lbs freshman to take lumps wrestling bigger and stronger upper classmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 but again...does this eliminate the 2 lb. allowance at mid season?????? seems like if they are going to make weight changes based on the arguements, that there will no longer be a need for the 2lb allowance anymore.....just a thought Darrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 but again...does this eliminate the 2 lb. allowance at mid season?????? seems like if they are going to make weight changes based on the arguements, that there will no longer be a need for the 2lb allowance anymore.....just a thought Darrell I do not think the 2lbs growth allowance will be eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robref Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Great, I just bought a new draw kit with all the old weights on them.......I guess I can put it with the gray officiating shirts they told us 2 yrs ago to get. Just my luck! ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 there was a reason they were on sale ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkplugdad Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I believe last year they were looking at adding a 240 class...I like that. Just too big of a gap from 215 to 285. Tough for kids at the lower or even middle of 285 to give up 40-60 pounds especially once they get to Regionals and beyond. 240 could be a good mix of size and still some decent speed.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Why do we need a weight that is predominately just for freshmen and sophomores? Why does my 145lbs freshman have to wrestle JV for two years, while his counterpart at 103lbs gets to be varsity for two years? Why are we punishing the bigger freshman and letting the smaller ones be varsity? And herein lies Y2's real distaste for the 103 pound weight class. It's not the forfiets. It's the fact that freshmen and sophs get a varsity letter just because they are small. They get picked out of the hall by the wrestling coach because they are small and that's not fair to the 140 pound fresmen who have to toil at JV for a year or two before they can crack the varsity lineup. However, what's the difference between grabbing a little freshman and grabbing a huge junior who has never wrestled a day in his life and throwing him into the lineup and then watching him qualify for state (see TaQuan Walker of Northside H.S. in Fort Wayne)? I'll tell you the difference. That little freshman a coach grabbed out of the hallway to wrestle 103 that never wrestled before will NEVER qualify for state in his first year. Whereas, the massive junior who has never wrestled CAN qualify. If I'm the 145 pound freshman toiling on the JV and you asked me which one ticked me off more, I'd definitely have to say the big boy would make me way madder. The little guy paid his dues and was only awarded a varsity letter and a quick exit from Sectionals. The big guy gets lauded for qualifying for state when so many more deserving wrestlers sit at home for state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlock83 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't want to stir trouble, but eliminating a small weight and adding another upper weight makes no sense to me. Maybe I'm speaking from a spectator's point of view, but god watching the final five weight classes was like watching grass grow. I understand that large guys can't move as fast and aren't as flexible as small guys. It is not their fault, it just seems illogical to add another weight class above 145 pounds. I also understand the frustration of all of the forfeits during the season at 103, but let's face it, wrestling is the one sport where you can be a small guy and be able to participate without a disadvantage. Not to mention, did you see the action taking place at 103 all weekend long? They may be young, but the wrestling was way superior to any of the upper 4 or 5 weight classes. The weight classes have periodically changed over the past 30 years, and it has really changed nothing to better the sport, so why bother. It seems like a lot of arbitrary discussion and headache. Leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnsDAD Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 this years 16 103's 3 SR. 2JR. 5SO. 6 FR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So why do you feel a freshman that weighs 100lbs is entitled to a varsity spot that is more fitting to him than a freshman that weighs 145lbs and either has to cut hard or wrestle 160lbs for a varsity spot if he he even has a shot at one? Freshmen are supposed to take lumps when they join a varsity sport, not have immediate success and have a weight class that is almost exclusively for them. No one has said they are insignificant, they are saying that we need to curb the number of forfeits and make the weight classes better suited to the kids that wrestle. Is there something wrong with a freshman weighing 100lbs taking some lumps as a freshman, but perfectly fine for a 145lbs freshman to take lumps wrestling bigger and stronger upper classmen? Because the 103 lbs freshman is better than everyone else in the school that is his size. The 145 freshman that is better than everyone else his size can do the same. 1) Mitch Slega 3rd in state as freshman 185 2) Auston Neighbarger State placer as a freshman 152 3) Vincent Corsaro State placer 135 I am sure there are many others that make their varsity team and don't make it to State. In your opinion what weight does real wrestling began? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The bump from 103 to 106 doesn't seem that big a deal to me. Again, what's really happening is 135 and 140 are being consolidated to 138 while 189 is being split into 182/195. Losing a middle weight for an upper weight. Adding a 240 makes no sense because there is no comparable college weight. The reason is kids are growing to adult size sooner than 20-30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 If you do the research I would bet that there were at twice as many freshman state qualifiers at 103 and 112 the past five years than 119 and above. I will send you an IndianaMat tshirt if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The reason is kids are growing to adult size sooner than 20-30 years ago. Add to that kids are starting school a little later also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 In your opinion what weight does real wrestling began? I don't want to answer for the "raise 103 class" crowd but I'm pretty sure they would say real wrestling begins at 125 and ends somewhere around 189. I think 5 pound incremental increases per weight starting at 125 and going through 190 would be perfect for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 And herein lies Y2's real distaste for the 103 pound weight class. It's not the forfiets. It's the fact that freshmen and sophs get a varsity letter just because they are small. They get picked out of the hall by the wrestling coach because they are small and that's not fair to the 140 pound fresmen who have to toil at JV for a year or two before they can crack the varsity lineup. However, what's the difference between grabbing a little freshman and grabbing a huge junior who has never wrestled a day in his life and throwing him into the lineup and then watching him qualify for state (see TaQuan Walker of Northside H.S. in Fort Wayne)? I'll tell you the difference. That little freshman a coach grabbed out of the hallway to wrestle 103 that never wrestled before will NEVER qualify for state in his first year. Whereas, the massive junior who has never wrestled CAN qualify. If I'm the 145 pound freshman toiling on the JV and you asked me which one ticked me off more, I'd definitely have to say the big boy would make me way madder. The little guy paid his dues and was only awarded a varsity letter and a quick exit from Sectionals. The big guy gets lauded for qualifying for state when so many more deserving wrestlers sit at home for state. You are making a bad comparison, here. If you compare that 100lb freshman, to a 250lb freshman who never wrestled a day in his life being a state qualifier, then you have a good argument. However, I don't recall any freshman hwts. that never wrestled before qualifying for state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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