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Sectional winning team pulling out of team regionals! (Coaches!)


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This coming from a guy with his head up another guys butt

 

 

8 straight sectionals   30 overall

 

2 Team state finals

 

5 State champs  

 

I think thats prime time

 

Congrats on the success, I don't think you considering it primetime is the point, people outside of the direct "wrestling community"  don't even know about it or think it's prime time.......and that is why you most likely won't have a chance for another team state after this year.

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Agreed ! So lets put this lame horse down and try to find a way to replace it with something good for the sport.

 

PS: Love the cartoon :) :)

 

What suggestion do you have that will be good for the sport as a replacement for our team series? There will still be a "team" champion that will be crowned, the only problem is that it will in no wa be an acurate indication of who the best team is.  It will show who has the most top end guys, but not the best full team. I do not see how anyone could think that this is good for our sport.  We may lose or team championship and it will be replaced by an inferior system that doesn't show us who truelly has the best team.

Oscar you have said, and others seem to feel that the team side is mainly driven by coaches ego.  Why do you, or others feel this is the case.  Why not celebrate our top teams?  How is this different from anyother team sport.  Team sports show who have the best collection of talent, not which team has the best couple of guys.  The team series pushes all 14 of the kids, and the JV kids, not just the top individuals.  It is not a selfish endevour, but one that pushes our coaches to work for all of their kids, not just the most talented ones.  If it were classed it would effect even more kids.  If it is lost we will never have it classed.

 

This is a huge issue for our wrestling community and we need to fight for it.  If it is lost wrestling as a team sport will in many ways be lost in our state as well.  Please tell me how this is good for our sport.

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I understand it's a slippery slope, but where do you draw the line that makes what Eastern wants to do ok and the scenarios I mentioned not ok when the standard is X needs to do what's best for X? As far as I'm aware, there are no rules against any of them. 

 

At what point do we consider what impact these decisions will have on the other people involved and the sport as a whole?

 

I see a team issue as different than an individual issue.  That is the big difference for me.  I am all for helping the sport, but at what cost?  If Eastern has a true valid reason for doing this, then I find it hard to believe that they lack integrity.  Now if tehy did it because they just didnt want to wrestle on a wednesday, then that is bad.

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For the past 2 years I have been trying to figure out how to redo the state tournament series, both individual and team, that the IHSAA and the IHSWCA would agree on.  It would start with a team dual sectional, that is seeded, that would get the true team to team state and the individual tournament would have wrestle backs to get the top wrestlers to advance each week.  I almost have it done, just working some of the bugs out. i.e. (6 matches in 1 day) We as coaches have to show the state that we want to keep both tournaments to promote our sport, or they will get rid of 1 of them.

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For the past 2 years I have been trying to figure out how to redo the state tournament series, both individual and team, that the IHSAA and the IHSWCA would agree on.   It would start with a team dual sectional, that is seeded, that would get the true team to team state and the individual tournament would have wrestle backs to get the top wrestlers to advance each week.  I almost have it done, just working some of the bugs out. i.e. (6 matches in 1 day) We as coaches have to show the state that we want to keep both tournaments to promote our sport, or they will get rid of 1 of them.

The IHSAA won't seed it, don't try it, don't even think about it. The IHSAA prides itself on the element of surprise and its random draw.

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Eastern should have at least 8-9 kids for the meet.  According to the results, they advanced 9 wrestlers to Individual Regionals.  If a few of them got hurt that day, and are unable to continue on, that is something I've not seen. This is a tricky situation.  I want to see the Team State series continue, so of course, I am going to be upset with any action that threatens that; however, I do understand the desire to give those wrestlers who are "still alive" in the Individual series every advantage...HOWEVER...I bet if you checked in with all of the other coaches entering the Team Regional this week, they will tell you that they too have illnesses, injuries, etc...maybe not to the extent of Eastern, but they have them just the same.  I do not believe, as some earlier posts have stated, that this was strictly a coach's decision.  Perhaps the wrestlers weren't consulted, but I cannot imagine any AD allowing this decision to be made without their input.  I wonder how the school corporation will look at this situation come budget time?  Could pulling out adversly affect the budget and wrestling program at Eastern?

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What suggestion do you have that will be good for the sport as a replacement for our team series? There will still be a "team" champion that will be crowned, the only problem is that it will in no wa be an acurate indication of who the best team is.  It will show who has the most top end guys, but not the best full team. I do not see how anyone could think that this is good for our sport.  We may lose or team championship and it will be replaced by an inferior system that doesn't show us who truelly has the best team.

Oscar you have said, and others seem to feel that the team side is mainly driven by coaches ego.  Why do you, or others feel this is the case.  Why not celebrate our top teams?  How is this different from anyother team sport.  Team sports show who have the best collection of talent, not which team has the best couple of guys.  The team series pushes all 14 of the kids, and the JV kids, not just the top individuals.  It is not a selfish endevour, but one that pushes our coaches to work for all of their kids, not just the most talented ones.  If it were classed it would effect even more kids.  If it is lost we will never have it classed.

 

This is a huge issue for our wrestling community and we need to fight for it.  If it is lost wrestling as a team sport will in many ways be lost in our state as well.  Please tell me how this is good for our sport.

Without getting too specific, I will try to explain my position.Let me first say this,I am not against the team competition aspect of this sport. In fact I love it. I do not like what I see in Indiana's current team series, and I think you know what that is. One thing that I personally disagree with is the idea that the individuals well being should be compromised or sacrificed for the sake and pursuit of a team title or in the case of Eastern HS for the sake of saving a currently "broken" team state format.They have absolutely-0% chance of winning a state title in its current form. I do not propose an inferior format, just a different format which more clearly separates the the individual from the team tournament. I know," easier said than done". So the wrestling community has its work cut out for it. As I said before, this a lame horse that needs to be put down so we can find a better one to replace it. It is good for our sport because we can do better and this is what I hope comes out of this in the end. Change can be good.

 

Respectfully Oscar

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Stop blaming Eastern. They are a straw man in this ordeal.  We are now paying the price for 15 years of ignorant coaches and fans ignoring the pleadings of small and mid-size schools.

 

Team state is about to go away because many of you failed to listen to tspray, JD and several others.  You can't say 'let's save team state (...and protect my reputation as a great coach...)' when for the last decade or more you turned a deaf ear to the 90% of programs out there who never had a shot.  As long as both team and individual are single class, Indiana will continue this civil war.

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Stop blaming Eastern. They are a straw man in this ordeal.  We are now paying the price for 15 years of ignorant coaches and fans ignoring the pleadings of small and mid-size schools.

 

Team state is about to go away because many of you failed to listen to tspray, JD and several others.  You can't say 'let's save team state (...and protect my reputation as a great coach...)' when for the last decade or more you turned a deaf ear to the 90% of programs out there who never had a shot.  As long as both team and individual are single class, Indiana will continue this civil war.

 

hit-the-nail-on-the-head.jpg

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Stop blaming Eastern. They are a straw man in this ordeal.  We are now paying the price for 15 years of ignorant coaches and fans ignoring the pleadings of small and mid-size schools.

 

Team state is about to go away because many of you failed to listen to tspray, JD and several others.  You can't say 'let's save team state (...and protect my reputation as a great coach...)' when for the last decade or more you turned a deaf ear to the 90% of programs out there who never had a shot.  As long as both team and individual are single class, Indiana will continue this civil war.

 

I think I will just sit back and watch the fur fly.

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I think it is pretty clear that team state is not going to survive.  Probably time to start thinking about what's next.  Looking back (at how great it is to be single class, for example) is what got us here.  Time to start looking forward.  And forward does not include a team state series.

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Couple things after reading through all the post. First thing many of us dont know is the whole story, this is correct. However why doesnt someone come forward man up and provide us their version of the whole story? If you have nothing to hide than you hide nothing, we as a wrestling community have every right to know. Alot of what is being said is starting to remind me of professional sports. A single person being larger than the sport, taking it upon themselves to make their own calls on things that they shouldnt. People stating its this teams choice whether or not to compete in the STATES tournament, remember one thing it is the fans who makes all sporting events possible.  Secondly for those of you who have the crystal ball and know who is and isn't going to win state every year take this into consideration. While I was in high school our team made it to team state 3 out of the 4 years. We never won the state title, but I would not trade those memories for anything. Traveling down to Center Grove being with your closest buddies, and going in to do battle, wrestling in front of more people than most will ever get a chance to. The year that we didn't make it down I would have given anything to be there again. Lastly posts being made about giving the healthy individuals some extra time by not competiting in the team regional making sense. WHAT? Please explain to me what this means, why do we endorse this, we have impressionable young wrestling adults reading this stuff. I can only imagine what would have happened to me if I would have went up to my coaches and said hey coach can you put someone else in for team regionals because I have to wrestle the individual tournament on Saturday. Looking back I know what would have happened,  I can't post it on this messageboard. Then again our coaches "NO EXCUSES"  type of attitude is what made our  team as good as we were.    

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First,......While I do believe coaches somewhat have a responsibility to their sport(wrestling), their first responsibility (priority) is to THEIR wrestlers. As I was growing up, my mother used to remind me occasionally ....."Son, you have to look out for Number 1.......cause nobody else is going to."

 

Secondly, I worked for Eastern HS for 3 years and coached for 1. The school/community has plenty of fine, ethical people, including those who were involved directly w/ this particular issue.

 

Finally, Bob Jarrett is no half A$$ rookie coach. He has forgotten more about coaching wrestling than most posters on this discussion board will ever know.  Im confident he bases all his coaching decisions on what he feels is right and in the best interest of those young men under his direction.

 

KBoyer

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Stop blaming Eastern. They are a straw man in this ordeal.  We are now paying the price for 15 years of ignorant coaches and fans ignoring the pleadings of small and mid-size schools.

 

Team state is about to go away because many of you failed to listen to tspray, JD and several others.  You can't say 'let's save team state (...and protect my reputation as a great coach...)' when for the last decade or more you turned a deaf ear to the 90% of programs out there who never had a shot.  As long as both team and individual are single class, Indiana will continue this civil war.

 

Absolutely.  I posted this a week or so ago and will do so again because there seems to be a lot of truths.  For those without the time or energy to read the entire article, I have pulled a J Robinson quote from this article that I think applies to this situation.

 

http://gstylewrestling.blogspot.com/2010/05/nature-vs-nurturein-wrestling-terms.html

 

Regarding the future of wrestling, J had these potent and somewhat alarming words to say on the topic:

 

"Wrestling will not die because the coaches at all levels do not know how to do double legs, high crotches and single legs; it will die because the coaches do not market and promote it correctly".

 

 

I am also reminded of a quote from a famous philosopher.  It is best if you listen to it in his own words.

 

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=MP3S&type=Movies&movie=Waynes_World&quote=change.txt&file=change.mp3

 

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As I was growing up, my mother used to remind me occasionally ....."Son, you have to look out for Number 1.......cause nobody else is going to."

 

KBoyer

 

"I was so busy looking out for Number 1 that I stepped in Number 2"

 

-Rodney Dangerfield

 

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Heard today that the Superintendent got involved and they are back in per his decision.  Seems he wa sunaware of all the rucas.  Also, if snowed out tomorrow night, it moves to Thursday night with Monday night as an alternate day.

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Heard today that the Superintendent got involved and they are back in per his decision.   Seems he wa sunaware of all the rucas.  Also, if snowed out tomorrow night, it moves to Thursday night with Monday night as an alternate day.

 

Even if this case, I would suspect the damage is done. Whether Eastern posts or not, the Team Regional is diminished. Who wants to watch a half-ass team guilted into appearing by a politico. I certainly don't. It is Eastern's intent with this move that demonstrates what most of the major programs have missed. Even fielding a 14-man team at these smaller schools has become more of a effort than trying to get the handful of elite wrestlers in their programs to the next level. When you have numbers like Mishawaka, Penn, Perry, etc, it is easy to overlook the fact that even competing for a spot on the 14-man team is a luxury that the majority of programs in the state don't get to experience. The Team State Series has run its course.

 

PS. I hope everyone still understands that it doesn't matter what anyone in the wrestling community wants for the sport though. Until the Cox regime proves different, the IHSAA has treated every organized effort over the last 15 years by the wrestling community like a 3rd world country is treated by the UN. Wrestlebacks, classes, whatever has been practically laughed off. Sorry to sound like a defeatist, but we haven't been given a sniff in at least the last 15 years.

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Wrestling is perhaps the greatest "individual" sport ever invented. A wrestler goes out there and takes on his opponent on the mat. The best wrestler emerges as the victor. That is the splendor of this sport.

Yet, like so many of you out there, I also love the team aspect. I love the fact that a subpar wrestler who knows he can't beat his guy can do his team a service by being tough and fighting off a pin. I love the strategy involved in the dual format.

Now to get to my point. Wrestling is also one of the most physically demanding sports out there. A wrestler wants to advance as far as he can in the individual tournament, that is the nature of the beast. Rarely do wrestlers say "Our team qualified for regional"...instead they remember how they made it to semistate their junior year, or whatever. Kids start at four years old learning to go out there and win individual tournaments.

The individual tournament is still the Mac Daddy of the sport. Coaches may try to put up a front, but we all knew the current team format was dead way before the Eastern decision. To use them as a scapegoat for a dying tourney is ridiculous. They simply did what was best for their wrestlers to accomplish their individual goals.

Blame them all you want, but it's inaccurate and unfair.

Instead of everyone lambasting a coach for his decision, which is based on what's best for his kids (which all coaches should put first and foremost in my opinion), why not think of a resolution to save a team tournament. The bottom line is that something has to be done to make sure the two tournaments do not take place at the same time. Have an individual state followed up by a one-day, 16 team state team tournament. Would be a fantastic day of wrestling.

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