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Forfiets


WingMan

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The wrestler does exist if he/she is healthy, weighed in and listed on the scorebook as able to wrestle and specifically if the wrestler wrestles in the same weight in other matches in the same tourney.

Are you going to be the doctor that determines if the kid is healthy or not suspended or not sitting out for another reason?

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Are you going to be the doctor that determines if the kid is healthy or not suspended or not sitting out for another reason?

 

What you describe could happen in a dual but would be a much more obvious case of poor sportsmanship type of "dodging matches" in a team dual.

 

Wouldn't a injured wrestler take a loss by injury default? Still a loss on their record.

 

Again... the key times where forfeit abuse could easily be lowered is in team dual tourneys.

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What you describe could happen in a dual but would be a much more obvious case of poor sportsmanship type of "dodging matches" in a team dual.

 

Wouldn't a injured wrestler take a loss by injury default? Still a loss on their record.

 

Again... the key times where forfeit abuse could easily be lowered is in team dual tourneys.

So we have a kid at 171 that is out for half the season he should be taking losses while he is rehabbing since we don't have another 171lber?  Awesome idea their chief.

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So we have a kid at 171 that is out for half the season he should be taking losses while he is rehabbing since we don't have another 171lber?  Awesome idea their chief.

 

Not if he is not entered in the scorebook.  You lose some brain cells after your weekend with the inlaws?

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The wrestler does exist if he/she is healthy, weighed in and listed on the scorebook as able to wrestle and specifically if the wrestler wrestles in the same weight in other matches in the same tourney.

 

I see listed on the scorebook here

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So we have a kid at 171 that is out for half the season he should be taking losses while he is rehabbing since we don't have another 171lber?  Awesome idea their chief.

 

That is not even remotely close what I said.

 

Here I'll break it down again for you - A wrestler who is .... 1) Weighed in for a given meet/tourney 2) Is on the scorecard to compete 3) Is deemed healthy to compete by a referee/official and very specifically 4) In a team dual tourney the wrestler continues to wrestle against other opponents.

 

Feel free dream up weird/extreme cases for a reasonable reason to forfeit. I believe it would be fairly easy to award a loss in the conditions I described.

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What you describe could happen in a dual but would be a much more obvious case of poor sportsmanship type of "dodging matches" in a team dual.

 

Wouldn't a injured wrestler take a loss by injury default? Still a loss on their record.

 

Again... the key times where forfeit abuse could easily be lowered is in team dual tourneys.

 

They would take a loss if they started the match, then got hurt.

 

I would just take the win for the forfiet and be proud that someone's dodging me for whatever reason. Giving them a loss for a match that they forfeited, is out of your control and you (or whoever) should just let it go...

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That is not even remotely close what I said.

 

Here I'll break it down again for you - A wrestler who is .... 1) Weighed in for a given meet/tourney 2) Is on the scorecard to compete 3) Is deemed healthy to compete by a referee/official and very specifically 4) In a team dual tourney the wrestler continues to wrestle against other opponents.

 

Feel free dream up weird/extreme cases for a reasonable reason to forfeit. I believe it would be fairly easy to award a loss in the conditions I described.

 

I'm trying ccbig, I'm trying

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That is not even remotely close what I said.

 

Here I'll break it down again for you - A wrestler who is .... 1) Weighed in for a given meet/tourney 2) Is on the scorecard to compete 3) Is deemed healthy to compete by a referee/official and very specifically 4) In a team dual tourney the wrestler continues to wrestle against other opponents.

 

Feel free dream up weird/extreme cases for a reasonable reason to forfeit. I believe it would be fairly easy to award a loss in the conditions I described.

This happened to us last year:

We have a kid who is sick, basically a match-time decision if we need him for the dual he wrestles if we forfeit to save him for the next dual.  So he should take a loss if we are winning by enough?

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Wouldn't a injured wrestler take a loss by injury default? Still a loss on their record.

 

If a wrestler is entered in a tournament and gets injured in a match and can't wrestle his next match and doesn't step on the mat, then he doesn't take a loss for injury default because he never steped on the mat.

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Are you going to be the doctor that determines if the kid is healthy or not suspended or not sitting out for another reason?

 

Are you questioning the character of the coaches?

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I do comprehend the point folks are trying to make.  There is a component of good sportsmanship and fair play.  Coaches manipulating the system in order to dodge quality wrestlers and artificially inflate their kid's record is not good sportsmanship, imop.  Forfeits are for when you have no wrestler or sickness.  This was touched on in the topic on large tournament seeding at Connersville and Al Smith.

 

There's a coach of a South Bend team who constantly engages in such dodging behavior, but only with specific wrestlers.  It's an effort to hollowly embellish a wrestler's winning percentage.  It's too bad, because he's a good coach.  All his jockying gets a few seed increases a sectionals, only to get tore up by Mishawaka, like everyone else.

 

There is also a commonsense element.  If a wrestler is sick, I don't believe punishing him with a loss is fair.  Sadly, for too many coaches and parents and competitors in a variety of sports, sportsmanship and fair play went away along time ago.

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I am brainstorming here...what if Team A forfiets the weight class, in which they had a wrestler weigh in and no tournment ending injury, to Team B in any dual then when it comes time for any seeding, that team can not put a wrestler in that place to be seeded ahead of the wrestler who gained the forfeit in that match.  Example, team A forfeits to team B then during the next tournment seeding meeting they stick in their wrestler.  Now if their are no common opponents, then team B's wrestler gets the higher seed.

some might say:

Q: Well we changed our weight class around during the dual and team A's wrestler moved up.  

A: That is the price you pay for switching your lineup to benefit the team, and if your thinking of doing that then you better have some reserves.  If not then wrestle straight up.  

 

Q: Well it was a match time decision.

A: If you know hes sick bring his reserve, if that not possible then dont weigh him in,  if thats not possible then you better hope he has some common opponents.  If he is that sick he shouldnt be on the mat spreading his possible sickness around.  

 

Q: This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

A: I think dodging wrestlers for seeds and advantage is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. I also think, sometimes, not all the time, that taking a foerfeit can send the wrong message to a team.  Sometimes its good stratagy but there should be a consequence for it.  This would really make a coach/wrestler think about how much they really want to sacrafice. If you think you are gonna have to bump weights during a tourny then plan ahead and have a backup, same with sickness or possible injury.

 

This is just my opinion and luckily, to my knowledge we dont face coaches or teams who practice this stratagy.

 

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