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WingMan

Forfiets

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I am sick of seeing this tactic (if you can call it a tactic)...If the wrestlers can't handle the heat of the kitchen, then keep them out of the kitchen.  They go to battle with their "hard-hats" and "work boots" (ie head gear and wrestling shoes) every day/match.  Let them wrestle.  And for those that can't hang...stay out of the kitchen and keep your boy home.

So if a wrestler can't "hang" with a two time state qualifier he should just quit? Awesome idea.

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So if a wrestler can't "hang" with a two time state qualifier he should just quit? Awesome idea.

 

I took the comment as if the wrestler can't handle the mental part of losing, stay at home.  Maybe you took it the same way too, but I wasn't sure.

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I'm sure this won't be a popular response but oh well......Dual events and individual events are very different.  In individual events you enter a guy in a weight class and don't forfeit.  I dislike the forfeit as much as the next guy but I see it as good tactical tool in some cases to get match up advantages in a dual meet.  That is the reason that wrestlers are to report in order, so a coach can choose to change his wrestler or forfeit after the other has reported.  Wrestlers and coaches should not get upset about the forfeit, but rather look at it as the ultimate compliment.  Take the 6 points and go on.  I know that every dual we wrestle, we evaluate the other school's lineup and try to decide where our best match up's might be and in some cases we will wait until the other guy reports and then forfeit and bump our guy up or several guys up.  Sometimes if we have a JV guy that can fill the spot, we may put him in there, but many times our JV guys are wrestling some place else and we have no choice but to forfeit to get the desired match ups.  Like I said, I'm sure this is not a popular response, but it is a tactic that will be used by coaches to get the best possible match ups to win the dual.

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I'm sure this won't be a popular response but oh well......Dual events and individual events are very different.  In individual events you enter a guy in a weight class and don't forfeit.  I dislike the forfeit as much as the next guy but I see it as good tactical tool in some cases to get match up advantages in a dual meet.  That is the reason that wrestlers are to report in order, so a coach can choose to change his wrestler or forfeit after the other has reported.  Wrestlers and coaches should not get upset about the forfeit, but rather look at it as the ultimate compliment.  Take the 6 points and go on.  I know that every dual we wrestle, we evaluate the other school's lineup and try to decide where our best match up's might be and in some cases we will wait until the other guy reports and then forfeit and bump our guy up or several guys up.  Sometimes if we have a JV guy that can fill the spot, we may put him in there, but many times our JV guys are wrestling some place else and we have no choice but to forfeit to get the desired match ups.  Like I said, I'm sure this is not a popular response, but it is a tactic that will be used by coaches to get the best possible match ups to win the dual.

 

Dual meet  strategies of forfeits to win a dual in November or early December?  I dont understand that logic.  Isnt getting a kid some early season experience more important than a November dual win??

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Dual meet  strategies of forfeits to win a dual in November or early December?  I dont understand that logic.  Isnt getting a kid some early season experience more important than a November dual win??

 

Yes, it is definitely more important. 

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Dual meet  strategies of forfeits to win a dual in November or early December?  I dont understand that logic.  Isnt getting a kid some early season experience more important than a November dual win??

 

Most all of our dual meet schedule is in November and early December.   After tonight we only have 7 dual meets remaining for the season.  All the rest of our events are Individual tournaments.  So, we do what we can to win dual meets now.  We get our JV wrestles over 30 matches, so the early season experience for a JV kid is not so necessary if he is going to get smashed by a SS or state qualifier.  Our conference duals are in early December, so it is very important not only to the coaches, but also the kids that we do what we can to win those duals.  It's about pride.  The intensity in the room and attendance has greatly increased from our entire team after going undefeated at conference duals last weekend.

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I maintain, if your wrestler (JV or Varsity) can't handle the competition.  Don't let them compete...but be honest with them as to why you (the Coach or parent) aren't letting them compete.  Whether it be humilation, potential injury or simply protecting their record for seeding purposes...be honest with your athletes.  Let's see how that effects numbers.  These are life-lessons we teach/coach our kids.  In the business world you don't get a "pass" or "no-thanks...I am just not ready" excuse.  At the High School level, everyone should be past the awards for "participation" or the awards for just breathing and being part of the team.

 

I say let them wrestle and if they don't then penalize the individual giving the forfiet. 

 

Is this horse dead yet?  Getting tired of reading sob-stories of sub-par wrestler's egos.  It's part of the sport, competition is part of the real-world.  Cut the apron strings and let the kids compete.  I really don't want to sit in a board room 5 or 10 years from now with kids who never lived in the real world and expect someone to come in and "save them."

 

Just exactly what message is sent to a wrestler who isn't allowed to compete...6 points for the other team...my butt.  It clearly sends the message that you aren't ready, you aren't capable, and we are doing you a favor...great tactic.

 

Once again, the forfieting individual should take a loss.

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Wing Man.... you are out of your element here...  the FFing  individual can't take a loss, a match never happened. 

 

Do you see what happens, Wingman? DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS?  THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS, Wingman! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FEED A STONER SCRAMBLED EGGS!

 

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Wing Man.... you are out of your element here...  the FFing  individual can't take a loss, a match never happened. 

 

Do you see what happens, Wingman? DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS?  THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS, Wingman! THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FEED A STONER SCRAMBLED EGGS!

 

 

At least you choose the correct "Do you see what happens" quote Walter.

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I know the match never happened which is why the forfieting wrestling doesn't take a loss.  That is my point.  I think it's wrong if the wrestler has participated in previous matches of the meet and contiues to participate after a forfiet.  Call me out of my element or not, I still say it's wrong and think the rule needs to be changed. 

 

I will also say that I didn't witness this at all at the Logansport tournement yesterday.  Seen a lot of JV wreslters getting action, but no blatent forfiets which was refreshing.

 

I know some believe this tactic to be strategy, but I don't and that's my opinion and I am sure everyone knows what opinions are like so know need to send me an message telling me about them.  The boys are there to wrestle so let them.  Competition and play time makes every athlete better (in my opinion).

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I know the match never happened which is why the forfieting wrestling doesn't take a loss.  That is my point.  I think it's wrong if the wrestler has participated in previous matches of the meet and contiues to participate after a forfiet.  Call me out of my element or not, I still say it's wrong and think the rule needs to be changed. 

 

I will also say that I didn't witness this at all at the Logansport tournement yesterday.  Seen a lot of JV wreslters getting action, but no blatent forfiets which was refreshing.

 

I know some believe this tactic to be strategy, but I don't and that's my opinion and I am sure everyone knows what opinions are like so know need to send me an message telling me about them.  The boys are there to wrestle so let them.  Competition and play time makes every athlete better (in my opinion).

 

please do yourself a favor and go rent, nay purchase a copy of The Big Lebowski. You won't regret it.

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please do yourself a favor and go rent, nay purchase a copy of The Big Lebowski. You won't regret it.

 

You want a toe....I can get you a toe....Believe me, there are ways Dude, you don't want to know about 'em, believe me.  Hell, I can get ya a toe by 3 o'clock.....with nail polish.

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You want a toe....I can get you a toe....Believe me, there are ways Dude, you don't want to know about 'em, believe me.  Hell, I can get ya a toe by 3 o'clock.....with nail polish.

 

she kidnapped herself, dude.  You said so yourself.

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The chinaman is not the issue here, Wingman. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Wingman. Across this line, you DO NOT.... do you have unchecked aggression?

 

I saw a team FF a weight class yesterday, bump the kid up, he won by a major decision and the team won the dual (by four points) and then the tournament.... seemed like a good idea to me...

 

I myself have dabbled in Forfeiting.... not in nam of course.....

 

Matt M: 

 

Fair! WHO'S THE Forfeiting NIHILIST HERE! WHAT ARE YOU, A BUNCH OF forfeiting CRYBABIES?

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A forfeit should not be allowed unless the team has no healthy wrestler at that weight. Bumping wrestlers up or down is the right way to try for a better match up.

 

A lessor skilled wrestler even if defeated may be able to keep the match close enough to allow victory, a major or even a tech. Even being pinned, the team score is still the same 6 points of a forfeit.  There may be those fluke chances the lessor skilled wrestler may even win or "catch" the better wrestler to gain a victory. All of those outcomes would be better for, or equal to, team points then taking the loss by forfeit.

 

Protecting wrestler records by forfeit is simply a way to try and scam the seeding for future tourneys.

 

In team tourneys where a team the forfeits 1 match at a weight but later has a wrestler at that weight... the wrestler that is wrestling the previously forfeited weight should have to take a loss by forfeit to their season record.

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A forfeit should not be allowed unless the team has no healthy wrestler at that weight. Bumping wrestlers up or down is the right way to try for a better match up.

 

A lessor skilled wrestler even if defeated may be able to keep the match close enough to allow victory, a major or even a tech. Even being pinned, the team score is still the same 6 points of a forfeit.  There may be those fluke chances the lessor skilled wrestler may even win or "catch" the better wrestler to gain a victory. All of those outcomes would be better for, or equal to, team points then taking the loss by forfeit.

 

Protecting wrestler records by forfeit is simply a way to try and scam the seeding for future tourneys.

 

In team tourneys where a team the forfeits 1 match at a weight but later has a wrestler at that weight... the wrestler that is wrestling the previously forfeited weight should have to take a loss by forfeit to their season record.

 

What if the wrestler was suspended due to breaking team rules?  

 

A kid's record should never be affected by a match he does not wrestle, that is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever heard.

 

Suspended in middle of  team tourney but then off suspension later in the tourney?

 

A wrestler who is suspended before a tourney would not even be weighing in would they?

 

I don't think your scenario fits to what are the classic cases of forfeits.

 

I don't think any wrestler should take losses to their record during a suspension but during the other above scenarios I mentioned in my previous post the wrestler should take the loss.

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A kid's record should never be affected by a match he does not wrestle, that is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever heard.

 

I disagree!  If suspended then not it shoud not count, but if wrestler is healthy, able to compete and is listed on the scorebook then the coach decided to forfeit for whatever reason then it should go on the kids record.  Once again we complain about the IHSAA and what they think of wrestling but we have no problem forfeiting matches and taking mat time away from wrestlers.  We want wrestlebacks and more matches, but I guess we only want that for the good wrestlers.  The bad wrestlers just get to forfeit to the good wrestlers.

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I disagree!   If suspended then not it shoud not count, but if wrestler is healthy, able to compete and is listed on the scorebook then the coach decided to forfeit for whatever reason then it should go on the kids record.   Once again we complain about the IHSAA and what they think of wrestling but we have no problem forfeiting matches and taking mat time away from wrestlers.  We want wrestlebacks and more matches, but I guess we only want that for the good wrestlers.  The bad wrestlers just get to forfeit to the good wrestlers.

 

If there's a forfiet, that means that there's either a wrestler "A" and no wrestler "B", or there's a wrestler "B" and no wrestler "A"... The "no wrestler" does not exist.

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If there's a forfiet, that means that there's either a wrestler "A" and no wrestler "B", or there's a wrestler "B" and no wrestler "A"... The "no wrestler" does not exist.

 

The wrestler does exist if he/she is healthy, weighed in and listed on the scorebook as able to wrestle and specifically if the wrestler wrestles in the same weight in other matches in the same tourney.

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The wrestler does exist if he/she is healthy, weighed in and listed on the scorebook as able to wrestle and specifically if the wrestler wrestles in the same weight in other matches in the same tourney.

 

I know people want them to be held accountable, but if they don't step on the mat for that bout, they don't exist for that bout. That loss never happened.

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