Y2CJ41 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 It depends on the kid and their situation. There are too many factors to look at when a kid succeeds or does not succeed at the collegiate level. Many people do not tend to realize the extreme differences in the high school and collegiate levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 It depends on the kid and their situation. There are too many factors to look at when a kid succeeds or does not succeed at the collegiate level. Many people do not tend to realize the extreme differences in the high school and collegiate levels. The thing that I lacked in college was self discipline. I was a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 College is a big test in time management, some pass, some fail.. both go home broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Duck_and_Run as an AVERAGE (at best) college wrestler who has on a couple of occasions wanted to hang it up and walk away....I am offended at the way you blame the coaches for a kid who fails at the college level...collegiate athletics and high school athletics are two different beasts. Running kids off as you claim in high school is terrible and should never be done but I have yet to meet a single high school coach who has done such a thing and I like to think I'm fairly active in the Indiana wrestling community. In college if you are going to be successful YOU have to put the time in to succeed. YOU have to motivate yourself. Coaches are there to help guide the motivated wrestlers towards their goal, not to babysit you and make you feel good about yourself so you don't quit. If you are unable to manage your time and keep your grades up its your fault not your coaches, if you cant motivate yourself to get up and go work out so you can become an all American you don't deserve it. A coaches goal is to do his best to find 10 individuals that will motivate themselves to be the best and thus boost the teams performance and overall skill. Again, I am severely offended by what you assume you know of the college wrestling lifestyle especially since you have not experienced it first hand so please keep your mouth shut on these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Duck_and_Run as an AVERAGE (at best) college wrestler who has on a couple of occasions wanted to hang it up and walk away....I am offended at the way you blame the coaches for a kid who fails at the college level...collegiate athletics and high school athletics are two different beasts. Running kids off as you claim in high school is terrible and should never be done but I have yet to meet a single high school coach who has done such a thing and I like to think I'm fairly active in the Indiana wrestling community. In college if you are going to be successful YOU have to put the time in to succeed. YOU have to motivate yourself. Coaches are there to help guide the motivated wrestlers towards their goal, not to babysit you and make you feel good about yourself so you don't quit. If you are unable to manage your time and keep your grades up its your fault not your coaches, if you cant motivate yourself to get up and go work out so you can become an all American you don't deserve it. A coaches goal is to do his best to find 10 individuals that will motivate themselves to be the best and thus boost the teams performance and overall skill. Again, I am severely offended by what you assume you know of the college wrestling lifestyle especially since you have not experienced it first hand so please keep your mouth shut on these issues. Good post! Wresting is the toughest sport in HS, and it only gets tougher in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbig Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I believe Penn and Portage both game mishawaka about a 15 point match...... Now Penn was so close thanks to a fluke pin... Binion was up big and got pinned after being countered on a blast double with less than a minute to go.... Wow, still hearing people commenting about the Binion match? Did you actually see that match? The match was much closer then the score showed. The same wrestler who beat Binion came from far behind to pin 4 or 5 other wrestlers this season. (Including at least 1 other top 10 ranked wrestler - At least was ranked top 10 before losing by being pinned). Call it a fluke if you like when it happens 1 time. I don't call it a fluke when the same wrestler is able to win despite being far behind in a match score over and over again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As to the thread topic.... Mishawaka H.S. has a taleted team of wrestlers and coaches. Nationally, Mish. is probably about right at 19. However, Mishawaka is a long way from a top 10 national team. In a team dual Mishawaka vs. #1 ranked Apple Valley of Minnesota... Mishawaka would be lucky to not be shut out. This is not a slam against Mishawaka....(or against Indiana) It is because of the number of wrestlers on each team ranked at a national level in all aspects of wrestling.... (Folkstyle, Freestyle, Greco) Indiana as a state has a strong Folkstyle program... Until Indiana wrestling, as a state, makes a stronger commitment to all 3 wrestling styles I can't see a Indiana h.s. team breaking into the top 10 nationally. Here are a few stats from last season at USA nationals for freestyle and greco in Fargo. Indiana State Team Juniors - Freestyle - 17th Greco - 36th Cadets - Freestyle - 17th Greco - 31st ***Since I picked a comparison of a Minnesota H.S. vs Mishawaka here are the Minnesota team results too...*** Minnesota State Team Juniors - Freestyle - 2nd Greco - 3rd Cadets - Freestyle - 5th Greco - 2nd My question would be.... What are we going to do to make Indiana freestyle and greco wrestling stronger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhsfan09 Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 ccbig yes i did see the Binion match and Binion was pushing the pressure and was scoring all/most of the takedowns. he got hit for stalling because varner? and himself werent doing anything and so Binion came with a blast double and caught on his back with under 10 seconds left. so yes i will say if a young wrestler doesnt push the action in the last ten seconds after pushing the pace the first 5:50, it can be called a fluke. also see the fact that Binion is technically top 10 cause i mean he did place at state and all ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbig Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 ccbig yes i did see the Binion match and Binion was pushing the pressure and was scoring all/most of the takedowns. he got hit for stalling because varner? and himself werent doing anything and so Binion came with a blast double and caught on his back with under 10 seconds left. so yes i will say if a young wrestler doesnt push the action in the last ten seconds after pushing the pace the first 5:50, it can be called a fluke. also see the fact that Binion is technically top 10 cause i mean he did place at state and all ;D No, wasn't Varner.. Varner wrestled at 112. By watching the match do you mean the broadcast tape that was filmed from the far upper corner of the event? A closer view revealed a much closer match. I also saw the match in person... from a close vantage point.... Have watched it over and over. By pushing the pace do you mean the stepping a giant step back, doing 3 hops in place and then getting back into a wrestling stance? (That was done by Binion several times in that match and in many of his matches I have watched during the season.) I would call that stalling. Maybe you mean the running straight backwards off the mat Binion did several times before finally getting the stalling call he received. I would also call that stalling. Binion won a few very close scrambles... the other wrestler didn't get credit for a obvious takedown... Binion got a few takedowns and ran backwards off the mat when in trouble. Many things in that match were much closer then the score showed and had the stalling call come sooner for running backwards off the mat. None the less... Binion lost by being pinned... and it was no "quick" pin or "quick tap". He was held on his back for more then 10 seconds. Again, not a criticism against Binion, he is a good wrestler, but where's the love for the wrestler who continues to wrestle and wins by pin no matter what the score or time left in a match? In case you didn't notice Binion never won against the Penn wrestler who pinned him during his path to state. ;D To return back to the topic of this thread.... I refer to my previous post in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISHCAVEFAN Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Binion screwed up and got beat... it happens. CC....The two wrestle 10 times how many do you think Binion wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Hull Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 1.) I am an Indiana boy at heart but FL has a long tradition of producing some of the best high school wrestlers in the country, almost as much as they produce football players. I feel Florida's biggest problem is they don't have college wrestling so most either give the sport up, go outside of the state, or play football - all of which hinder the growth of wrestling in the state. One of the best high school programs in the country was ran by the late Coach McCoy at Homestead. R.I.P. to his son, Sean, who was a 6x national champ himself. Great friend that died to young. 2) I had the ability to not only wrestle successfully at the collegiate level but also coach at the collegiate level. The biggest issues I feel most H.S. wrestlers face at that next level, whether they were a regional qualifier or 3x state champ, is the discipline required to excel is more demanding, the pace is much faster, keeping one's head up on shots cannot go overlooked, and taking advantage of all re-shots and combos makes a huge difference. Obviously there are other issues but that's just my humble opinion. 3) Lastly, Mishawaka is definately a top 20 team nationally from what I've seen and they definately handled their business this year. Derek has done a great job of motivating and getting his athletes ready to compete since he has taken over the program. They're pretty solid from top to bottm. Still, there are some teams out there nationally that they would have trouble with I believe because of a longer tradition of producing winners, like Blairs Academy in NJ, Broken Arrow in OK, or Erie in PA. Still, that doesn't take away from them being state champions and whooping our team if we faced off. It is very true as well that the more Indiana wrestlers who compete in Freestyle and Greco, the better Indiana will become on the natinoal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 i was there... saw the match.... Was about 10 rows up from the mat and slightly to the right if the center of the mat... yep saw it, yep ws a fluke pin.... Binion was dominating ran a blast double and got caught, it happens. That being said, it made a 25 point match turn into a 15 point match, but heck even the top 5 teams in the state that wrestled Mishawaka lost by 25 points. That is no knock on penn, just the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2212 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think Mishawaka would beat all of the higher nationally ranked teams. To qoute myself "You have class wrestling, you ain't tough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhsfan09 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 No, wasn't Varner.. Varner wrestled at 112. By watching the match do you mean the broadcast tape that was filmed from the far upper corner of the event? A closer view revealed a much closer match. I also saw the match in person... from a close vantage point.... Have watched it over and over. By pushing the pace do you mean the stepping a giant step back, doing 3 hops in place and then getting back into a wrestling stance? (That was done by Binion several times in that match and in many of his matches I have watched during the season.) I would call that stalling. Maybe you mean the running straight backwards off the mat Binion did several times before finally getting the stalling call he received. I would also call that stalling. Binion won a few very close scrambles... the other wrestler didn't get credit for a obvious takedown... Binion got a few takedowns and ran backwards off the mat when in trouble. Many things in that match were much closer then the score showed and had the stalling call come sooner for running backwards off the mat. None the less... Binion lost by being pinned... and it was no "quick" pin or "quick tap". He was held on his back for more then 10 seconds. Again, not a criticism against Binion, he is a good wrestler, but where's the love for the wrestler who continues to wrestle and wins by pin no matter what the score or time left in a match? In case you didn't notice Binion never won against the Penn wrestler who pinned him during his path to state. ;D To return back to the topic of this thread.... I refer to my previous post in this thread. yes varner did wrestle 19 if i believe correctly, but it wasnt gregory, but gregory being the best person on penn's team did get beat by binion at semi state which makes your point invalid but its all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 yes varner did wrestle 19 if i believe correctly, but it wasnt gregory, but gregory being the best person on penn's team did get beat by binion at semi state which makes your point invalid but its all good! Varner wrestled Beck @ 112 and Chapple pinned Binion @ 119 . How do you know Gregory is the best person on Penn's team ? Do you mean Wrestler ? I don't know about that , Andy Wiseman only had 2 losses ,was a Semistate champ and beat two different Mishawaka varsity wrestlers Morin,Shehab. I realize Gregory also beat 2 Mishawaka wrestlers (Wisler,Binion), but Gregory was not a Semistate champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Well 3 things. First i heard gregory was rather ill at semi state, that may have affected him. secondly Gregory is the one of the highest in not the highest state placer on the team I believe.... didn;t he get 4th last year? not sure any one else on the team has achieved that much success and third, I think most if not all of us can agree that Gregory is the best light weight on Penn's team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Well 3 things. First i heard gregory was rather ill at semi state, that may have affected him. secondly Gregory is the one of the highest in not the highest state placer on the team I believe.... didn;t he get 4th last year? not sure any one else on the team has achieved that much success and third, I think most if not all of us can agree that Gregory is the best light weight on Penn's team. Agreed , a healthy Gregory beats Binion 10 out of 10 times . And I was talking about this year, not last year .Wiseman and Gregory had about identical records this year , with one of their losses coming from the eventual state champion in their weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Agreed , a healthy Gregory beats Binion 10 out of 10 times . And I was talking about this year, not last year .Wiseman and Gregory had about identical records this year , with one of their losses coming from the eventual state champion in their weight class. Agreed, last year wiseman and gregory were equal. However, I was looking at their whole careers and their resume's. So i guess we were each correct in our thinking. And i think we can agree with eachother that last year they were equal, but over their careers' the nod goes to gregory. I also think we can agree, that they are both good, and I would take them on my team any day and like my chances of getting a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamDad Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 We can also agree that both will be getting recruiting letters this spring to come to Mishawkaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 yeah cause mishawaka is stupid enough to send out the letters..... besides after what happened with rehinoel, one of those two wrestlers would probably not be overly welcome in the room thanks to rumors ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 You guys are dumb... Letters are so 90s check out craigslist.... State Finals experience preferred. Multiple siblings welcomed. All housing, schooling, and vehicles paid for care of School City of Mishawaka... On a serious note, Mishawaka had one transfer in their line up this year...Penn had 2...125 Chappel was from Minnesota and Devon Regan wrestled for Mishawaka in 7th grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 You guys are dumb... Letters are so 90s check out craigslist.... State Finals experience preferred. Multiple siblings welcomed. All housing, schooling, and vehicles paid for care of School City of Mishawaka... On a serious note, Mishawaka had one transfer in their line up this year...Penn had 2...125 Chappel was from Minnesota and Devon Regan wrestled for Mishawaka in 7th grade. MHS has a 7th grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 No, Penn schools has 3 7th grades and Mishawaka schools have 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhsfan09 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 on topic, mishawaka is in the top 20 nationally in wrestling... and they are number one for bustin a move ;D lol sorry had to say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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