castle reg

[BTaylor]

Anyone involved in the sport of wrestling knows that a digital scale must be zeroed out if it doesn't ready 0.0.  It's common sense.  Apparently that is something many people on this discussion board is lacking.  Coach Harmon has already done it, but I will defend myself on this board.  I have not ever been a cheater, nor will I ever be one.  The Castle Wrestling program is one that is run with the upmost intergrity and I am sure that most coaches (besides the one sthat obviosly don't like us) will vouch for that.  The scales were moved to the weigh in room a half hour prior to the official weigh in so there was an adequate amount of time to check weight on BOTH scales.  Everytime that we travel to another school for competition, we always check on ALL scales available since you don't know which weight classes will weigh in on which scale.  The problem with this whole issue is that the young man in question was over on BOTH scales while only ONE scale had to be zeroed out.  

 

I wrestled for 4 years for Coach Harmon and have been priveleged to coach with him for the past 5 seasons.  For anyone to question this man's intergrity is absolutely absurd.  People may call him a jerk because he gets visibly upset at times but that's only because of his passion for this sport and for his passion for his athletes.  He will fight for what is right (and this situation proves just that).  I would not be the person that I am today without being part of this program for the past decade and learning many of life's lessons from Coach Harmon.  I, along with ALL other former Castle wrestlers, have the upmost respect for him and for what he believes in.  

 

Brandon Taylor

Castle High School Assistant Wrestling Coach

 

[meto]

[The scale in question was ZEROED OUT, let me repeat the SCALE IN QUESTION WAS ZEROED OUT,the second scale ( the scale not in question) the kid missed weight by 3 tenths.]

 

Coach Harmon wrote that and it to me it reads as if someone altered the scale or zeroed it out.  I again did not state that it was tampered with, or any way imply that it was malicious. 

as a young man i was taught to think before i accused anyone does it occur to you that you were played bye your young wrestler now your the one that looks bad

[digem]

The benefit I have is that I don't have a chip in the game.  So it is not my athlete, son, etc...  I was taking an objective look at this post gone wild. 

Obvsiously folks are going have their emotions and opinions and they can spin this anyway they want. 

 

So METO if your post was pointed towards me.  I don't look bad or feel bad for trying to discuss this. 

[529]

I don't think anyone intentionaly messed with the scale.

 

 I am still confused why bob harmon is upset at Scott Ferguson?  If Scott accused bob of being dishonest.  Why did bob not say anything to him?  They were in the same gym for 10 hours but no conversation.  If they would of talked I am sure there would be a better understanding of what is going on.  This is like he said, she said stuff.  It is not needed.

[IUBjj171]

I don't think anyone intentionaly messed with the scale.

 

 I am still confused why bob harmon is upset at Scott Ferguson?  If Scott accused bob of being dishonest.  Why did bob not say anything to him?  They were in the same gym for 10 hours but no conversation.  If they would of talked I am sure there would be a better understanding of what is going on.  This is like he said, she said stuff.  It is not needed.

Well wouldnt you be upset if a whole crowd at a regional is talking about how "Castle altered the scale" and a former wrestler of yours is talking to other coaches accusing you of cheating!!! Thats BS. I would be upset. And not only that but also having the head of IHSAA called and now he believes something is going on with the scales here

 

You would be upset as well

 

By the way you can sue for slander in a case like this. Trying to tarnish a reputation by saying something without hard proof that it was backed up

[TCboiler]

Is everyone absolutely sure that this kid did not eat anything (or even go to the drinking fountain) after the first time he checked his weight? It doesn't seem as if anyone has explored this possibility.

[Cover2]

111 of 112 with no problem nor complaint would seem to attest to that.

I don't have a dog in this fight so my input is just clearly a dude on his couch reading a forum about his Alma mater but that comes to 99.10714% of the field without any complaints.  Clearly factual statistical data doesn't compute for some people.  

 

I do have a legitimate question.  Why in the world did the IHSAA allow the student/athlete wrestle?

[529]

I understand being upset about being accused of something you did not do.

Like I said I do not think anyone messed with scale with bad intentions.

However, why not talk to your former wrestler?  So you can resolve the issue.  

 

[catfish]

Back to the wrestling action.  Can someone tell me why the Mann kid from Castle did not get the escape point in OT when both wrestlers were in the up position?  This happened in the quarter finals.  Is there a rule that I missed?  Did the referee miss the call?  Was Goebel really the referee of this match?  Anyone that heard an explanation and could help clear up the confusion of everyone in my section watching would be appreciated.

[firegrappler]

Let me try to sort through all of the "intentions, passive aggressive bs, name-calling, paranoia, etc" and look at what appear to be the facts.

1.  Reitz kid shows up and is on weight on one scale. 

2.  Him being on weight was witnessed by other wrestlers and coaches

3.  Prior to the official weight in the scale was altered by someone at Castle

4.  The reitz kid did not make weight due to the change

5.  Reitz protests this and the CASTLE AD talks with the state

6.  The state says let him wrestle due to the scale being altered

7.  Kid wrestles and gets second

 

I don't see where the "drama" is with this.  Reitz defended their wrestler, and the state made the decision.  I don't see any name calling just addressing the issue that occurred.  This could have all been prevented by having the scales ready when the teams arrived.  The rest of this drama seems like some personal issues.  Just my two cents

Per Digem coaches and wrestlers eyewitness accounts  should suffice that a  wrestler made weight.  Just forego the officials and that official weigh in stuff.

Apparently Digem doesn't know the hard work required to host the regional.  Because the whole Castle staff works their butts off to host the event.  And as the host what more do you expect as to "having the scales ready when teams arrive"?  I suppose Digem was there after the meet rolling mats and cleaning the bleachers.  The drama is that our sport took another hit to it's integrity because new rules will be imposed due to this precedence of scale tampering.  

[nutsdad]

,........all the kids that wrestled did a great job,it was a great day of wrestling,Good luck to all that are on there way to Roberts.                                                                              I will be cheering for all from this reg.

 

 

 

 

And so will I!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1954]

Has anyone stopped to think about the emotions from the 103 lb from GSHS, Daniel. His emotions went up and down like a roller coaster. He was told he didnt have to wrestle, made it to semi-state, and then told that the boy could weigh again. Daniel is a talented young wrestler by the time he reached the mat he had so many up and downs he was not wrestling as he could have.

[Y2CJ41]

The Gibson Southern kid would still have to wrestle.  The 3rd and 4th place finishers would move up one spot and the sectional champion(Dylan Hall) would then receive the forfeit.

[mgoe812]

 

The thing is Catfish is that Mann had escaped and then actually reshot and they still scrambled to their feet.  I could see that kid wasn't going to make the call.  He had to have ruled that the MD kid was still in control.  No loss of control.

 

I almost yelled a bad word.

 

 

I dont remember having this match. Someone can correct me if I am mistaken.

[catfish]

Not sure if you were the official or not.  People around me were arguing about whether you were the official.    Do not know if it was a bad call or not.  Watching the match, it looked like an obvious escape and there were some coaches questioning the call.  I was curious if it was a rule I did not understand or the official did not see the escape.  Maybe he never got his head all the way out?  Both wrestlers were on their feet and Mann thought he had the escape and was not trying to seperate.  He looked stunned to not get the escape and so did the coaches and fans.  I was wanting clarification on why everyone was surprised.  The match would have been tied and could have went either way.

[chambers]

I also did not understand why there was not an escape point awarded. This is what I remember from the match. Castle starts on bottom and stands up. Both wrestlers were on their feet face to face. The Mater Dei wrestler had control of the Castle wrestlers elbow and wrist. They were like that for a few seconds and then either they went out of bounds or the time ran out.

[catfish]

Since we have been discussing officiating.  This had nothing to do with the outcome of the match, but is it possible for a kid to get hurt with 30 seconds or less everytime they are losing?  Should they get injury time out?  Should the coach not step in and make the wrestler keep wrestling?  I posted on the officiating site and they said the answer was that they did not have control over injury timeouts, but if the coach would step in where this was a constant problem to make sure that a wrestler was not creating an unfair advantage by being winded and catching a breather.  Does anyone know of a coach that has called out their own wrestler to insure fairness for their opponent?  I have witnessed it four times now with one wrestler.  Re: Out of shape wrestler acting hurt to get breath?

? Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 10:55:18 AM ? Quote 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer from officials last time this happened when I questioned it on that page:

 

That would be filed under coaching ethics. A ref must grant injury time to a wrestler if he asks for it. 

 

 

[LiSiHi724]

I guess I will break down and make some remarks in regards to the chaos that has eveolved from the scale issues. First of all, no coach or indiviidual from Reitz ever pointed fingers at anyone and the words cheater and liar were never mentioned.  This is how I understand the issue. Reitz arrived at 7:30 for a workout before weigh ins. The scales did not even arrive in the weigh in room until about 10 minutes until 8 am. VanHook checked weight on both scales. .4 over on one and 105 even on the other. He returned to the mats and continued drilling. Obviously no sense of urgancy since he assumed he would be fine for the official weigh ins. Official weigh ins begin and he steps again, .3 over on both scales.  Obviously he is shocked. He came up to me in the locker room of weigh ins and told me what had happened. Dylan Hall confirmed that VanHook had made 105 even and he had seen it prior to official weigh ins. I find it hard to believe Hall would have said his toughest competition made weight if he actually never did. Theh concern was taken to the officials conducting weigh ins. Coach Ferguson and Mr. VanHook were asked to wait until weigh ins were done to plead their case. The head referee got the details and while this discussion was taking place several other schools came in complaining of the scales being heavier during official weigh ins than they had been prior to 8am. Head ref then went to the Castle AD, a phone call was placed to Bobby Cox. "Bobby said let him wrestle." Is what we were told whenever the referee returned. Reitz did not ask for this to happen. This is what came from the man at the top, period.  

There are the details as to what went on regarding the scale issue. Now everyone is a little better informed. That being said I'd like to address some of responses and posts directed at Coach Ferguson and Reitz wrestling.

How unprofessional can you get? Calling out a fellow coach and former athlete of yours out over an internet discussion board... Kids are on this board just as much as any one of us and this is not a good example for them. I find it very childish to questions coach ferg's integrity on this issue as well. The ruling was made by Bobby Cox, not Scott Ferguson. Honestly, I think everyone was shocked, including Reitz wrestling, with the decision that Bobby made.  In my eyes, this issue is dead. The decision was made and the tournament is over.

I understand Castle's concern with their good name, I'd be the same way, but attacking a fellow coach on the internet as a result is not the way I would have handled it. This is being made out to be like its a personal attack and that is not the case. In closing, this has been blown way out of proportion and its unfortunate that it was broadcast throughout our state in such a manner.

Lets move forward with our quest for Conseco as one, Southern Indiana.

 

Chase Fisher- Assistant wrestling coach at Reitz HS

[m25443]

VanHook checked weight on both scales. .4 over on one and 105 even on the other. He returned to the mats and continued drilling. Obviously no sense of urgancy since he assumed he would be fine for the official weigh ins.

 

How can you possibly not have a sense of urgency if you are .4 over on one of the scales?  Wow.    ???    Strange comment.

[LiSiHi724]

You get to step on both scales. Obviously one was heavier and one was lighter. Vanhook made weight on one scale, which is all that is needed to be able to wrestle. Sorry if I wasnt clear on that comment.

 

Coach Fisher

[wrestlingguy]

Scales arrived just 10 minutes before weigh ins?  I highly doubt that.  I guess what comes around, goes around.  Reitz  pulled a fast one and got by with one at weigh ins.  However, they only got through with 6 when the dust settled.  Is that the lowest # of semi-state qualifiers for any top 10 team in the state?  I guess in a weird way, justice was served.  Mater Dei got 10, Castle 11, Memorial 7, and Heritage Hills 4.

[frigginhurts]

I think I saw the 130 match in question with Mann in the Semi finals.  In my mind there was no separation and they went back to the mat.  If mann would have stayed on his feet he may have gotten the one point.

 

back to the scale situation - i would say that i would not have let the kid wrestle but that is the past.  i still REFUSE to believe that he made weight on one scale and either didn't drink something or didn't have it zeroed out before he weighed.  my guess is he wasn't paying attention and when he stepped on the scale it was reading NEGATIVE .3 thus made him 105 even and the other scale was 105.3.  there is ABSOLUTELY no way that the scale was working, went light, then back to working again.  all logic points to the kid being over from the start.

[Central321]

Chase Fisher, can you be any more hypocritical? Telling Bob Harmon he is in the wrong for calling out Scott Ferguson as you turn around and call Bob Harmon out? Please tell me how thats right.

[bigb70]

Starts with the scales,and ends with a reg. going on even though some schools couldn't make the trip because of snow,man this Cox guy is not making any friends

[GS171]

VanHook did not make weight on either scale, i witnessed the whole thing.. i saw him walk over to his coach with a terrified look on his face and said he was .1 over on one of the scales and .3 over on the other..but he did also say he was right on when he first got there but not the official weight-in