zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 If he has a legitamate injury like one that has kept him out part of the season, then there is no problem with it. Just as Danny Williams did. Its when you default mid match without an injury that is unethical. Y2 if he doesn't wrestle tomorrow please give me an apology cause u know NOTHING about the situation and I was implying I bet he doesn't inj def his last 2 matches He being the 4th place sectional finisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 i believe justdoit135 hails from hobart, crawfordsville is a temporary home of sorts for him.. Crawfordsville gives you a better chance of advancing than Hobart?! Sorry, had to do that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfcfanatic Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 What can fix this whole situation for everyone? The answer is quite simple.... Wrestlebacks! We have a flawed tournament. Year in and year out, the best four wrestlers from semi-state do not make it out because of the draw. If we had wrestlebacks at the regional and semi-state level, coaches would not be trying to find out their draw. Lets look at it this way. Let's say that 3 of the four best wrestlers in your semi-state are in your regional. The other wrestler that is in your semi-state is Andrew Howe. You are one one of those three kids in your regional. You lose your semi-final match and are now wrestling for 3rd and 4th. You somehow find out that if you get third, you will have to wrestle Andrew Howe in the round to go to state, but if you get fourth, you will have to wrestle a kid you've beat three times the first round and another kid you have beat in the round to go. What would you do? There have been several instances where this happens. I bet if Justin Mora would have known that he had Danny Williams Friday night at state because he won semi-state, he would have thought twice about winning that match (Although it did create the best Friday night match I've ever seen). This situation is just another reason why we need wrestlebacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I would rather my wrestling coach worry about the wrestling aspect of things. My father is there to teach me what is right or wrong and ethically okay. whether you currently think he did a good job or not is of little matter. I want my wrestling coach to worry wrestling not being a good role model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 The kid who inj def to 4th in his sectional is he now going to win his first match at regionals and inj def the next 2 matches to get 4th again? Yeah, it's a stretch, Zach. But continue this thought for a second: Would you rather wrestle Justin Kieffer or Brandon Wright in the Conseco advancement round at state as a 2nd place regional qualifier or wrestle a champ from Richmond (Milan's Huff possibly) or Pendleton Heights champ (LN's Johnson possibly). I know what I would suggest. By the way, I just threw out the regional favorites for the regionals feeding New Castle. I hope Huff or Johnson win the whole damn thing. I am just saying. . . Y2, I don't think working to improve your wrestler's draw has a negative impact on your character or your wrestler's outlook of you. Just my opinion. We need wrestlebacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 From the rule book: The coach shall be aware that he or she has a tremendous influence, for either good or ill, on the education of the student and, thus, shall never place the value of winning above the value of instilling the highest ideals of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Here is a thought. So many people say it is all about winning so they see nothing wrong with it. Well, if it is all about winning and then you dodge someone, arent you admitting you cant win it? If so, then what is the point of dodging someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cooper Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 What can fix this whole situation for everyone? The answer is quite simple.... Wrestlebacks! We have a flawed tournament. Year in and year out, the best four wrestlers from semi-state do not make it out because of the draw. If we had wrestlebacks at the regional and semi-state level, coaches would not be trying to find out their draw. Lets look at it this way. Let's say that 3 of the four best wrestlers in your semi-state are in your regional. The other wrestler that is in your semi-state is Andrew Howe. You are one one of those three kids in your regional. You lose your semi-final match and are now wrestling for 3rd and 4th. You somehow find out that if you get third, you will have to wrestle Andrew Howe in the round to go to state, but if you get fourth, you will have to wrestle a kid you've beat three times the first round and another kid you have beat in the round to go. What would you do? There have been several instances where this happens. I bet if Justin Mora would have known that he had Danny Williams Friday night at state because he won semi-state, he would have thought twice about winning that match (Although it did create the best Friday night match I've ever seen). This situation is just another reason why we need wrestlebacks. no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yeah, it's a stretch, Zach. But continue this thought for a second: Would you rather wrestle Justin Kieffer or Brandon Wright in the Conseco advancement round at state as a 2nd place regional qualifier or wrestle a champ from Richmond (Milan's Huff possibly) or Pendleton Heights champ (LN's Johnson possibly). I know what I would suggest. By the way, I just threw out the regional favorites for the regionals feeding New Castle. I hope Huff or Johnson win the whole damn thing. I am just saying. . . Y2, I don't think working to improve your wrestler's draw has a negative impact on your character or your wrestler's outlook of you. Just my opinion. We need wrestlebacks! I will work with my kids to win the right way, that is on the mat and not take a dive to presumably make something easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Y2 you got me. According to the rule book my position on this topic, my person beliefs, and ethics are illegal; However, i still think the coach's decision was not unethical and would prefer if that particular rule would be removed from the rule book. But for the time being you win. Feels good huh? haha Wrestlebacks: That would solve everything and simultaneously make regionals and semi state much less exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 One of the things that I am proudest of about wrestling is the character it takes. There are no teammates to blame, you can't dodge opponents. You must face each challenge squarely and honestly. Whether it's cutting weight, or shaking hands with someone you are not expected to beat and finding out if there is any doubt. That seperates wrestling from other sports. I think that many of us share those values and this instance tends to violate that truth. That is the issue, the rest is just politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Crawfordsville gives you a better chance of advancing than Hobart?! Sorry, had to do that... Yeah, I was skeptical too. According to the Wabash College coaches it is true. I guess we'll see in a few years right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 One of the things that I am proudest of about wrestling is the character it takes. There are no teammates to blame, you can't dodge opponents. You must face each challenge squarely and honestly. Whether it's cutting weight, or shaking hands with someone you are not expected to beat and finding out if there is any doubt. That seperates wrestling from other sports. I think that many of us share those values and this instance tends to violate that truth. That is the issue, the rest is just politics. Judging from the responses, I guess you aren't going to feel that way again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewdwar Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 For those that don't think this is an issue, what do we do when both wrestlers have information about an unfavorable draw and both want to injury default the match - is it just going to be a race to see who can do it first? Thats what she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I will work with my kids to win the right way, that is on the mat and not take a dive to presumably make something easier. [/quote Once again Y2 u know nothing of the situation. The kid is not 100% I can promise u this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yeah, I was skeptical too. According to the Wabash College coaches it is true. I guess we'll see in a few years right? If Coach Anderson can't help you do it, then it can't be done. That's coming from a fellow Manchester grad and teammate of his. Good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Then why was he wrestling the match in the first place and winning on top of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Wrestlebacks: That would solve everything and simultaneously make regionals and semi state much less exciting. How does seeing the best four come out of Regionals and Semistate make those tourney's less exciting? Wrestlebacks would make better tournaments for sure thereby enhancing the excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Awood2: Thanks. Coach Vlaho, and Coach Irwin help too. Y2: Because he is just that good. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Just scanned this topic and I cannot believe that anyone would condone with this coach is alleged to have done. I also cannot believe someone can make the FFT in the final match of an already decided dual meet analogy with a straight face. If you can't see the distinction there, then there is no hope for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 How does seeing the best four come out of Regionals and Semistate make those tourney's less exciting? Wrestlebacks would make better tournaments for sure thereby enhancing the excitement. Don't get me wrong here. Wrestlebacks are the answer. They will make the tournament series better. However, The round to go at regionals and the Ticket round at semi state is some of the most exciting and inspired wrestling you will see. Knowing that if you lose your season is over is quite the motivator. So if there were those wrestlebacks those big win or go home matches would not occur and the exciting atmosphere would be lessened. It would still be exciting only less so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Y2: Because he is just that good. ;D If you have a kid that is injured and just trying to make it to the next week for another week of healing, then he should default before the match. The team race wasn't in question, so there would be really no other reason to be wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Judging from the responses, I guess you aren't going to feel that way again. This is the kind of smart ars response that makes me love INmat. Y2, haven't I seen you at Wood reunion before?!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Then why was he wrestling the match in the first place and winning on top of that? ummm it was sectionals and I didn't ask him why he was winning but I will if u want me to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 ummm it was sectionals and I didn't ask him why he was winning but I will if u want me to If the kid was injured that badly why did he step on the mat in the first place? If his goal was just to get to the next round and hope to be closer to 100% next week, then he shouldn't have been on the mat. On top of that he was winning at the time. If the purpose is just to advance in this situation, i am taking all precautions and not letting him wrestle. There is no reason to get hurt in basically a meaningless match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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