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Class This!!!!


duck_and_run

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And kids in Ohio don't have to work hard for their championships?  Are you saying that when Jimtown wins a 2A state title in football that they don't work hard?  That is a pretty bold statement. 

 

Its funny that Ohio's system is so broken, yet they are heads and shoulders above us in wrestling.

And we all know why they are heads and shoulders ahead is because they have several thousands of students more than Indiana to participate. As does New York , As does Pennsylvania, Illinois, and the rest. Exceptions ? sure , but not the norm.

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And we all know why they are heads and shoulders ahead is because they have several thousands of students more than Indiana to participate. As does New York , As does Pennsylvania, Illinois, and the rest. Exceptions ? sure , but not the norm.

 

 

Did you really just say that the rason they are btter is because they have more students to choos from, and that was your way of justifying your arguement?  You just made everyone that is for class wrestling's arguement.

 

ty

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And we all know why they are heads and shoulders ahead is because they have several thousands of students more than Indiana to participate. As does New York , As does Pennsylvania, Illinois, and the rest. Exceptions ? sure , but not the norm.

But the number of students in a school(or state) doesn't matter, right?

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Why shouldn't a state with more HS wrestlers have more quality college wrestlers than a state with less wrestlers?

Because it doesn't matter, no matter how big or small you are if you work hard you will be a champion.  Obviously Indiana kids don't work as hard as Ohio kids or Michigan kids or Illinois kids. 

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Wow, one year in which small schools "dominate' the fort wayne semi-state and you want to call off all notions of class wrestling?  When these 2A schools routinely make it to the final eight, come talk to me.  When these 2A schools knock off the likes of Mishawaka, Perry Meridian, Merrillville, Crown Point,etc, come talk to me.  

 

I know from my own experience why Whitko(without a C) and Garrett are doing better than Carroll and Dwenger.  

Are you going to just throw these schools under the bus? What a great accomplishment! You of  all people, you fight for little schools and then on the other hand you smack the daylights out of them by diminishing what happened this year. What happened this year could happen any year!  But not if we put a lid on these schools and make them wrestle in their class. As we see size is not the common denominator of success.

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idk how you can say indiana kids do not work as hard as other states? unless you have seen every practice room in all these states....on another note i do think larger schools have an advantage in the way that most athletes in large schools are one-two sport athletes meaning they spend all year focusing on that sport to succeed in whereas small schools need their athletes in as many sports as possible and many wrestlers in these small schools are three sport athletes.

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Because it doesn't matter, no matter how big or small you are if you work hard you will be a champion.  Obviously Indiana kids don't work as hard as Ohio kids or Michigan kids or Illinois kids. 

 

I definitely understand both sides of this argument, and I don't think your answer really makes sense when you look at my question.

 

Isn't it just a matter of numbers?

 

If Ohio has 10,000 high school wrestlers then they get 100 NCAA wrestlers.

 

If Indiana has 5,000 high school wrestlers then they get 50 NCAA wrestlers.

 

Why is that a bad thing or unfair?

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I am confused.  Disco out of the bottom 160 schools we only had 6 of those schools advanced.  Um 6 out of 32 isn't very good odds.  You call that success I call that unbalanced.  I will stand by my very statement on this topcic.  I Will do an over and under on how mnay schools under 700 students will make it to state.  We have 319 wrestling schools.. Schools under 700 students make up 160 of those schools.

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BTW, I have no problem classing team state, even though I really don't like the idea.

 

I'm still looking for that argument that will sway me on the individual side though. The only real argument that I've completely understood is that if small school kids can go deeper into a class tournament, it will give them more recognition, something to strive for, self-confidence, and maybe more kids will want to wrestle. Not a bad argument.... but I'm not sure if that's enough to convince me.

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BTW, I have no problem classing team state, even though I really don't like the idea.

 

I'm still looking for that argument that will sway me on the individual side though. The only real argument that I've completely understood is that if small school kids can go deeper into a class tournament, it will give them more recognition, something to strive for, self-confidence, and maybe more kids will want to wrestle. Not a bad argument.... but I'm not sure if that's enough to convince me.

If the size of a school can affect a team, don't you think it would affect the individual?  Does a 1A quarterback have as good of a line or receivers as a 5A quarterback?

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idk how you can say indiana kids do not work as hard as other states? unless you have seen every practice room in all these states....on another note i do think larger schools have an advantage in the way that most athletes in large schools are one-two sport athletes meaning they spend all year focusing on that sport to succeed in whereas small schools need their athletes in as many sports as possible and many wrestlers in these small schools are three sport athletes.

Well then why aren't we as good as Ohio, Michigan or Illinois? 

 

Why isn't Garrett as good as Mishawaka, Perry Meridian or Merrillville?

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I am confused.  Disco out of the bottom 160 schools we only had 6 of those schools advanced.  Um 6 out of 32 isn't very good odds.  You call that success I call that unbalanced.  I will stand by my very statement on this topcic.  I Will do an over and under on how mnay schools under 700 students will make it to state.  We have 319 wrestling schools.. Schools under 700 students make up 160 of those schools.

 

Your argument has a little bit of a hole there, considering that if you just raise your arbitrary number of 700 to 727, you have a decent chance of getting 3 out of 8 teams at team state under 727.

 

Also, this may be a completely irrelevant comment, but I think within the next 10 years, that median of enrollment is going to be much higher. We are going to have a considerable amount of consolidations with the way things are going.

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How can cutting 319 to 160 be arbitrary?  I didn't make the numbers up.  They are what they are. It just so hapens that 727 is on the upper half.  Go look it up.

 

 

Just for you Decbell.  I had a good talk last year at state with Coach Faurote about class wrestling and he told me he believed we needed it.  He talked about the declining numbers that Belmont has had over the last 10 years.

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If the size of a school can affect a team, don't you think it would affect the individual?  Does a 1A quarterback have as good of a line or receivers as a 5A quarterback?

 

I completely understand what you're saying..... and I'm constantly weighing it against the fact that a wrestler is on a mat on his own, without other teammates. Obviously the issue here is in the wrestling room and practice partners.

 

If you're in a room of 1 compared to Perry's 40, are you at an inherent disadvantage? Probably, and that's most likely the best argument that is always made.

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Y2 this goes back to what we talked about a long time ago... Size only matters to them if  they think it supports their ideas... they being the opposition to class

Exactly, its amazing how Ohio is better because they have a greater population, but Mishawaka isn't better than Garrett because of school population.  

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How can cutting 319 to 160 be arbitrary?  I didn't make the numbers up.  They are what they are. It just so hapens that 727 is on the upper half.  Go look it up.

 

 

Just for you Decbell.  I had a good talk last year at state with Coach Faurote about class wrestling and he told me he believed we needed it.  He talked about the declining numbers that Belmont has had over the last 10 years.

 

Maybe arbitrary was the wrong way to say it. What I meant was that just a few schools one way or the other you can really change the numbers. How accurate are those enrollment numbers? How often are they taken?

 

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to argue with both sides, because I still don't know which side I'm on.

 

Ya, Bellmont's numbers have definitely been going down on the team and at the school overall. If things keep going the way they are now, Bellmont will be right around that 700 number. (I definitely wouldn't mind having a decent chance to take a shot at MD every year)

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