Financial CUTS for schools, WRESTLING or other sports being cut?

[GrecoCoach]

Amen! I teach Chemistry and it gets harder for the kids who struggle with basic math and reading comprehension. So of course that will improve by cutting funding everywhere, except Hamilton County, who saw a funding boost last year while everyone else was losing hundreds of thousands to millions.

 

I'm not sure where that data comes from, because my school district in Hamilton County got less states funds even though our enrollment grew substantially (we were going to be about $12 million in the hole).  Which basically dropped us down to the bottom 5% of Indiana school districts for state money per student.  Our district did a great job promoting a referendum at the last vote and got it passed 80% Yes to 20% No.  It was a huge success compared to other districts who have tried a referendum and most of them got voted down.

 

Now after the latest political decisions, we're down $4.5 million again.  We've heard rumors of teacher pay freezes and transportation cuts, but one rumor about dropping middle school athletics has been taken out as an option.

[Smooth34]

Amen! I teach Chemistry and it gets harder for the kids who struggle with basic math and reading comprehension. So of course that will improve by cutting funding everywhere, except Hamilton County, who saw a funding boost last year while everyone else was losing hundreds of thousands to millions.

 

Schools in Hamilton County will see a significant decrease in state support just like other schools which likely means sever teachers in those school districts will be losing their jobs as well.  

[KarlHungus]

I recently saw a video from like 1996 in which Mitch Daniels when he was with Eli Lilly, in which he said public education doesn't make sense, will never work, and all students should go to charter schools.  Also, isn't Tony Bennett's wife in charge of like 50% of the charter schools in Indiana?  Isn't that a conflict of interest?

 

What happens if we get to the point where charter schools have to accept unmotivated and/or learning disaled students that public schools now serve.  Daniels talks like charter schools are some kind of magic bullet that were cure all ills.

[Trinedad]

One proposal on the table is to consolidate superintendents to possibly one per county instead of one per school system.  I'm never in favor of someone losing their job, but this proposal might just make sense........

 

No way you can make it one per county. In marion county, you have 3-4 of the largest high schools in the state in the county, let alone all the mess that is IPS. It might work in the smaller counties, but not in the more populated ones. Maybe a per capita type of system where you have a superintendant for a given number of students. But then how do you balance the kids at North Central, Warren Central, Pike, Lawrence North and Central, Ben Davis,  and Decatur, with the kids in the IPS system. Toss in Perry Meridian, Southport, and Franklin Central, and that is a job that is way to big for one person to do. IPS alone is to big for one person.

 

Now back on topic, I am sure that somwhere along the line we are all going to see some sort of pay for play in effect at the high school level, no matter the size of the school, or the sport. Will this eliminate some kids, I am sure it will, that is where your booster club can step up and help some of the more disadvantaged kids in the school. You will still lose some kids, but you will be able to help a few.

[KarlHungus]

No way you can make it one per county. In marion county, you have 3-4 of the largest high schools in the state in the county, let alone all the mess that is IPS. It might work in the smaller counties, but not in the more populated ones. Maybe a per capita type of system where you have a superintendant for a given number of students. But then how do you balance the kids at North Central, Warren Central, Pike, Lawrence North and Central, Ben Davis,  and Decatur, with the kids in the IPS system. Toss in Perry Meridian, Southport, and Franklin Central, and that is a job that is way to big for one person to do. IPS alone is to big for one person.

 

Now back on topic, I am sure that somwhere along the line we are all going to see some sort of pay for play in effect at the high school level, no matter the size of the school, or the sport. Will this eliminate some kids, I am sure it will, that is where your booster club can step up and help some of the more disadvantaged kids in the school. You will still lose some kids, but you will be able to help a few.

 

What if your entire district is disadvantaged?

[Boot]

What if your entire district is disadvantaged?

 

And what if they're disadvantaged and sports are the only thing keeping them out of trouble after school? I sure hope the state doesn't look at it as a "what's cheaper, fighting crime or funding extracurricular activities?"

[KarlHungus]

And what if they're disadvantaged and sports are the only thing keeping them out of trouble after school? I sure hope the state doesn't look at it as a "what's cheaper, fighting crime or funding extracurricular activities?"

 

I can answer that and I never took accounting.

[Trinedad]

What if your entire district is disadvantaged?

 

Karl. you are correct. I am sure that somnewhere along the line some sports programs are going to bve lost, and some kids are going to have to forego participation. I did not say it was a good choice, but it is one I am sure the schools are going to make at some time in the future. However distasteful pay for play is, it is far better then relegating sports to club programs, or cutting them altogether and having nothing. Do I want this, No, do I think it is going to come about, yes.

 

If I knew the answer to any of this, I would not be working on HVAC products for a living. I would be one of those superintendants that are making boat loads of cash, free cars, free gas, free maintenance of free car, and any number of other perks that some of them have negotiated for themselves. I am watching this closely, as I have a son in college that is looking seriously at becoming a teacher and this has a direct impact on where he chooses to live, and how far away it might be to find schools that place values on more then paying their surerindentants a high wage.

[decbell1]

decbell, I was being sarcastic when I said it shouldn't cost anymore money.  That was the party line from the gov's office.

 

 

sorry Karl, didn't realize. Glad you agree.

[snoopy]

??? How do we justify pay to play when over 50% are on a free or reduced lunch program.

 

  >:(I believe that most ECA activities will be either privatly funded or eliminated.

 

>:(Schools will soon be the old 3 r's with no or few electives

 

;D Maybe I'll retire by then.

[KarlHungus]

??? How do we justify pay to play when over 50% are on a free or reduced lunch program.

 

  >:(I believe that most ECA activities will be either privatly funded or eliminated.

 

>:(Schools will soon be the old 3 r's with no or few electives

 

;D Maybe I'll retire by then.

 

say it ain't so.

 

I take it the new password works

[piratelooksat30]

 

Personally, I did all kinds of volunteering when I was 22 and just started teaching including being a voluntary wrestling coach. 

 

Those days are past.  I am married with two sons 3 and 1, and do not volunteer for anything unless I "have to".  I fulfill my contracts, but I do not take time away from my family unless I am being paid for it.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I have two young kids and it gets harder and harder to  be away from home . You would really have to have an understanding wife to keep coaching year in and year out for free. I really think some people have a hard time understanding that.

[Insanoflex]

 

You would really have to have an understanding wife to keep coaching year in and year out for free. I really think some people have a hard time understanding that.

 

She has to be understanding and tolerant of coaching whether it's paid or voluntary.  My wife knows she becomes a "wrestling widow" come November and sometimes this creates disagreements.

[mtv2112]

Some thoughts on the comments above in this thread . . .

 

High school sports in the United States are equal to the club sports of Europe.  The problem in the U.S. is that if high school sports go away, there is no club option that will train the large quantity of kids currently playing high school sports.  I find it interesting that we see all these public service announcements about getting kids active, fit, etc. and the option to eliminate sports is on the table.

 

I agree 100% that high school athletics/activities keep kids out of trouble.  Perhaps we need a separate tax to provide for this funding.  That way maybe all programs can be funded better (i.e. wrestling, band, etc.).

 

Low achievement in school is not related to public money being spent on education.  I don't think you can double the number of teachers and get anything more than a slight incremental increase in achievement.  The problem with education is a social problem, and more likely an social/economic problem that starts at home and any attempt by a government agency to do anything about it is a waste of money.  I believe that student achievement is a three legged stool consisting of the student, the teacher, and the parent.  Take one leg away and struggles are bound to happen.  So far, we are not legislating that the parent care about their child's education.  There are a lot of parents that don't care, there are a few kids that are not capable, and a teacher here and there that is putting in time.  Money solves none of this and I suspect these have been problems for a long time and will continue far into the future.

 

In the Mt. Vernon school district, they are closing a grade school due to budget cuts.  This grade school should have been closed in the next five years or so anyway due to declining enrollment.  It may happen sooner than people want and theckman is correct:  there will be good teachers lose jobs.  There will also be a few poor teachers keep jobs.  I don't personally have troubles with increases in taxes so long as the money is well spent and thoughtfully spent.  The school boards must do an excellent job with public relations and making a case for asking the public for more money.  EVSC did this very well against a motivated opponent and thus a new Evansville North High School is being built.  If they sit up on the throne and pontificate about the needs for more money in a sterile way, they probably won't get too far.  If they make the case for the funding and engage the public, then there is a chance.

 

By the way, there are a lot of us that have been without pay raises for the past three years due to the economy.  That argument won't fly too far right now.

 

I wonder if the folks in Haiti are worried about their wrestling programs?  I guess with all our problems in Indiana, we are still pretty damn lucky.

 

[Coach McCormick]

I have found this topic interesting to follow.  There have been some very good points made from people from all walks of life.  Before I add my thoughts and opinions to this dialogue, I think it is important to share my perspective.  I, too, am a teacher (science) at a public school.  My wife is an assistant superintendent, and I have a son in the 6th  grade.  All of the cost cutting and revenue generating ideas that have been brought up on this thread are definite possibilities from the daily discussions that I have been a part of.  Here are a few items that I would like to address as I follow this topic:

 

1.  Every school system is different depending on location, socio-economics, tax base, etc.  Times are very difficult for

          many people in this day and age, but I take offense to those who criticise school administrators without walking in

          their shoes.  Not every school system provides a vehicle to their superintendent; or free gas; or a personal business

          account to work with.  People think school administrators sit in their office and do little for their pay, but this is just

          not the case.  As I type this response, my wife is at her office putting together documents for an upcoming RTI

          meeting.  I would tell those who are critical of school administrators to go ahead and earn your EDS or PhD, and then

          you will have earned the right to pass judgement on the thankless job they have.  What I take offense to, and find

          appauling, is that our society will support men who get paid millions of dollars to throw a football and dunk a basket-

          ball!  I find it hard to stomach when yet another superdome is built on the backs of taxpayers, while "free and

          reduced" numbers climb in our school systems!  These are the true financial tragedies in our society today.

 

2.  I do think that dialogue of this nature is very helpful.  I do think that these issues should be discussed at future

          IHSWCA meetings.  I agree with Y2 on small schools.  Although not necessarily being targeted, I fear that small

          school wrestling programs are going to be dropped during the budgetary cross fire that is starting to happen.  What

          will also be interesting to me is when they drop a wrestling program... will they also drop a female program, so that

          Title IX guidelines are met?  I do not want to see this happen, but so much emphasis has been put on equality and

          rights in recent years that if impending cuts do occur, I wonder if the same amount of emphasis placed on equality

          will be reciprocated to the male programs if the equation becomes slanted the other direction?

 

3.  Obviously tax dollars are being stretched very thin, but one area of promise seems to be corporate sponsors.  Times are

          getting tough for corporations, but I am seeing more corporate funds being donated to subsidize school ECA's than

          ever before.  Some don't like this idea and say that relying on corporate sponsorships is taking the "amateur" out of

          amateur sports.  I very much disagree with this viewpoint.  I don't mind at all putting a corporate logo on my new

          wrestling mat if they are going to donate the $9000 for the mat!

 

Well, I have many more opinions on this topic, but I will stop here.  I want to thank those teachers, coaches and

administrators who are on the front lines facing and dealing with these tough issues on a daily basis.

 

Trent McCormick

[KarlHungus]

Very good points coach.

 

I do think the IHSWCA should form a committee or group of some kind and draft a posistion paper with proactive measures to keep wrestling at the high school level.  Funding ideas, class wrestling and other issues could be addressed.