tspray1 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 My annual class wrestling post. The following information is to support only my belief, and anyone else who agrees with me . I am going to give the run down of a state that is smaller than our own beloved Indiana. Let me give a little background on the state of Wisconsin and its wrestling. There are three classes in the state of Wisconsin I, II and III. Div I being the large school division, Div II being the middle division and Div III the small division. I?m going to use this years Cadet Duals, Junior Duals and Fargo results as my evidence. Now this will most likely take me 3 or 4 posts to separate all the info. So please bare with me and please lets have a debate not a bickering contest. First lets look at how the Fargo results have gone so far. Team Wisconsin CADETS ?GRECO? Team Wisconsin Greco National Champions 4 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS 130 Alex Dieringer (Port Washington High School) (DIV II) 140 Zak Benitz (Wisconsin Rapids High School) (DIV I) 145 Brad Dolezal (Marshfield High School) (DIV I) 171 Devin Peterson (Wisconsin Rapids High School) (DIV 1) 11 ALL AMERICANS 84 Austin Loos (7th) (Will attend Oshkosh Lourdes) (DIV III) 91 Bobby Nachreiner (2nd) 112 Ryan McQuade (4th) (Appleton West) (DIV 1) 112 Hunter Weber (6th) (Marshal High School) (DIV III) (This kid beat Mark Grey and Ben Whitford in Freestyle this year) 125 Torin Boernke (7th) (Marshfield High School) (DIV I) 130 Jared Donar (3rd) (Cuba City High School) (DIV II) 140 Ryan Gartner (5th) (Wilmot Union High School) (DIV I) Team Wisconsin CADETS ?FREESTYLE? 2 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS 135 Alex Dieringer (Port Washington High School) (DIV II) 171 Devin Peterson (Wisconsin Rapids High School (DIV I) 4 ALL AMERICANS 130 Jared Kust (6th) (Shawano High School) (DIV I) 140 Zak Benitz (6th) (Wisconsin Rapids High School) (DIV I) Team Wisconsin JUNIOR ?GRECO? 1 NATIONAL CHAMPION 285 Niko Bogojevic (DIV I) (Superior High School) (DIV I) 5 ALL AMERICANS 135 A.J. Zemke (8th) (Oshkosh Lourdes High School) (DIV III) 152 Kalvin York (2nd)(Bellview High School) (DIV II) 160 Kyle Crain (5th) (Hudson High School) (DIV I) 215 Alex Polizzi (7th) (Beloit Memorial High School) (DIV I) Ok lets start with some real basic observations . Division 1 in the state of Wisconsin looks to be the stronger div. (Which it should be) 20 All Americans not counting the ones to come from Junior Freestyle is staggering for a state that is smaller than Indiana and has 3 Classes. Cadet Double Champion Alex Dieringer placed 2nd in The Div II State tournament this year. Kalvin York 2 time Greco Champ 1x Junior 1x time Cadet, 1x Cadet Freestyle champ. He never won a state title in Wisconsin He wrestled in DIV II. He placed 5th this past year. Will be wrestling for the Badgers on Scholarship. K have to take a break will get back with more later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyandky Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Hey Spray how you guys been doing? Is the little one still wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 Doing great thank you for asking. Yes the little one is still wrestling, as well as patrick. Preston didn't wrestle state last year due to cutting his eye lid open 2 days before state. How are your boys doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Why tspray? The board was going great andyou bring up class wrestling! > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 That's what I thought as well AJ....But it is Y2's Birthday. Even though he is completely immersed in wrestling nirvana it wouldn't have quite been complete without this thread. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Dylan Ness from Minnesota has won three national titles(Cadet Greco, Cadet Freestyle, and FILA-Cadet Freestyle) amongst other top national placings, but has yet to win a state title in Minnesota. But class wrestling makes things easier.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyandky Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Doing great thank you for asking. Yes the little one is still wrestling, as well as patrick. Preston didn't wrestle state last year due to cutting his eye lid open 2 days before state. How are your boys doing? Boys are ok they are playing all star baseball.All 3 of them.Wrestling whenever they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Jay Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Y2, I know you are the research guru. How has Ness done in the National Folkstyle tournaments? There are some great wrestlers who never win a state high school tournament but excel in the international sports of Greco and Freestyle. What I am getting at is how does comparing Greco and Freestyle to Folkstyle and class wrestling make any sense. Styles are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Dylan Ness from Minnesota has won three national titles(Cadet Greco, Cadet Freestyle, and FILA-Cadet Freestyle) amongst other top national placings, but has yet to win a state title in Minnesota. But class wrestling makes things easier.... In english, this example would be called an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Miller Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Tim, good to hear from you and that you and the family are doing well. Keep the class wrestling info coming. Someday the classless will finally understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 How has the 5 (or is it 6?) class system worked for Arizona? Their about the same size as Indiana, maybe slightly bigger. How does their wrestling compare to ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 After adding all of the 4 event point totals together this is the final outcome for each state.. Cadet Greco and Freestyle plus Junior Greco and Freestyle. 1st Illinois 252 2nd Pennsylvania 196 3rd Minnesota 195 4th California 131 5th Wisconsin 128 6th Iowa 115 7th Florida 91 8th Ohio 89 9th Michigan 88 T10th Missouri 83 T10th New Jersey 83 12th Washington 73 13th Virgina 66 14th Arizona 62 15th Utah 52 16th Oklahoma 51 17th Oregon 48 18th Maryland 44 19th Texas 43 20th Colorado 42 21st Kansas 41 22nd Georgia 37 23rd New York 35 T24th Idaho 34 T24th Montana 34 26th Nebraska 27 27th Indiana 25 28th North Dakota 24 29th Wyoming 23 30th Alabama 20 31st Nevada 14 32nd Deleware 10 33rd Massachusetts 8 34th South Dakota 7 T35th Hawaii 6 T35th North Carolina 6 T37th Tennessee 4 T37th Lousianna 4 T37th West Virgina 4 T37th Conneticutt 4 41st New Mexico 2 There were several other states that did not score. I will put the the amount of wrestlers for each state in a bit. Unless Y2 wants to:) As for Arizona this year they seemed to have performed better than us... In fargo and In junior Duals.. They did not have a team for the Cadet duals not sure why. Several of their Cadets wrestled on the Junior team. Arizona has too many classes 5 is way to many...Indiana would do fine with 2 or 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Jay Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Could someone post or email me the list of Cadet and Junior Partcipants for both styles. I would appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARSMAN Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Just throwing it out there...Illinois is at the top of the list there, but i thought we did great against them in the duel. im not sure too much can be put into the stats there. we have one true champ...no questions about which division they were in or if the guy in the class above them would beat them. i feel we handle business in the most efficient way possible to find out who the TRUE state champion is for our state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yea thats all great in all but when a state has a kid that places 5th in div 3 (small division and he stomps our true state champ) what that tells me that 1 class doesn't mean squat. Quiroga and Tsirtsis would still have been the top two best kids in the state at 125 this past season. If we had class they both would have been in the large division. To me your best kids in each division will still rise to the top but I really think it will help our depth in this state.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARSMAN Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 That kid would be out champ whether he was in class 3a or no class...all it will do is give a title out to 2 more people a year in each class. A single class ensures that the best are competing head to head to win a state title. There is nothing that is across lines that prevents a wrestler from facing the best. Other states may have more classes, but i dont see how this creates any better competition than if we just keep our one. A friend of mine and fellow coach that wrestled in the class system in Florida will not deny that it is a lot harder to get to state and win a state title here in Indiana than what it is in Florida. There is enough of people going on now on the board about what part of the state they hail from...would the region have as many champs if we went to a class system? would one powerhouse school run a class because they are private and can "attract" athletes to come and wrestle at their school? i love that there are no questions at the end of the day to see who the best really is when we are done at Conseco. In many states they end up wrestling a seperate tournament of champions after their own class state tourneys to see who the real champ is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Our top guys can hang with the top guys in other states, as the Illinois example shows, but we lack their depth of top level wrestlers IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Our top guys can hang with the top guys in other states, as the Illinois example shows, but we lack their depth of top level wrestlers IMO. I agree. Though I still see a major factor in that being the depth youth programs (middle school and elementary), number of our youth programs, avalability of good wrestling academies/RTCs, and knowledge of coaches at all levels. An issue some areas have slowly started to work on over the last several years. Class wrestling at the team level may be a future part of that equasion if we can continue to improve those items mentioned above ( and if the IHSAA changes its mindset). However, as I've mentioned numerious times I don't see class wrestling at an individual level being the major factor needed to drastically change the level of wrestling in Indiana just yet. Maybe if we improve the other stuctural elements (items mentioned above) individual class could be an option, but if put into place now I don't see it as changing our state growth in the sport that dramatically compared the other stuctural elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts