Drooke Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/235194-east-coast-duals-2009/187221-huge-powerbombs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Willmann Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I think Tom Clark could clarify more. I thought that if you had a wrestler in a supine position like that it was to be stopped immediately and if the wrestler threw it, they were to be disqualified automatically. The only thing that leads me to question, is I believe that is Marsha who is officiating the match, and she at one point in time used to be a Fila Exceptional so now I'm confused, but that's not hard to do either haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I guess that was my question Coach. It seems as though the ref (with a bit of experience) officiating the match called it legal... But, should it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpd096 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I always thought it was illegal until I viewed the USA Olympic Greco highlight video on YouTube several months back and saw 1 or 2 powerbombs like that being utilized in the last Olympics. I remember thinking to myself after I saw it, "Is that legal?" I totally understand what you are inquiring about, I am curious too! Personal opinion: Absolutely NO! It should NOT be legal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The only one I have a real problem with is the last action...and probably because of the camera angle. This competition was a Junior event and safety is paramount. The kid doing the lifting does appear to have my old body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefthanded Headlock Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I see no problem w/ it for University and up. The guys competing at that level tend to be of the same skill so it's much harder for someone to do it for showing off purposes like that kid obviously was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I agree with the above statement university and above. Greco is brutal, but inexperience could lead to bad injuries, which is not the lable highschool and below wrestling needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 If anyone suggests we go to the international styles in high school or college, they will be hard pressed to get an AD to back them after seeing those videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 If anyone suggests we go to the international styles in high school or college, they will be hard pressed to get an AD to back them after seeing those videos. Yeah but man do it look nice to an audiance. I really doubt we will ever see a complete switch to an international style. I'm sure a push towards more of an internatinal style in HS or college would be minus any of 5 point style throws. They are by far the most concerning issue for most parents, school, and students. However, if you take that issue and a few other items way and a more modified international style of scoring wouldn't be to hard for many people to get behind. I'm not the biggest fan of the international style in its current scoring form, but I do believe it would benifit everyone to slightly close the gap between the folkstyle and international styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 after further review...and a second look....all three are illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefthanded Headlock Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 What did you see this time that made them illegal Tom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I don't have the offical ref version of why it would be illegal, but its not hard to see why it is more dangerous than most throws. Most throws in freestyle/greco emphasis one fluid motion of both wrestlers with the offensive wrestlers follwing the move with his opponent. This "powerbomb" style move is not one fluid motion and in many cases the offensive wrestlers does not follow with his opponent. In most cases the "powerbomb" lifts the wrestler over head (dangerous position), then stops the motion (not one fluid motion) and slams the opponent down in a different direction towards his neck or spine area still in a dangerous position). In many casee the offensive wrestlers simply thrust the defensive wrestler down to the ground (not following with the move). That to me indicates a more dangerous type of move than the average throw reguardless of the defensive wrestlers neck position. If the move would be done in more of a rolling motion (one fluid motion, offensive wrestler following the move, less of a dagerous postion for defensive wrestlers neck/spin) as seen on several of the Mango clips I it would be far less dangerous to the defensive wrestler in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm not at all familiar with greco but if the move is legal than ok if not then illegal. It's pretty straight forward in greco you are either going to get tossed or be the one attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeblewobble Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I hope not. He was going for impact, not control. There were even some of the Mango throws where he purposefully left his own feet to create impact. I do not think 14yr olds should be trying either of these. At the Olympic level, I believe the athletes are capable of controlling such "bombs" but I still hope they don't to keep younger athletes from learning them before they are ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I am a big fan of rough wrestling, but that should absolutely be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 What did you see this time that made them illegal Tom? This is the Junior division and the offensive wrestler "spiked" or brought the defensive guy straight down. The action must be either a throw or a sweeping motion and not straight down. I have discussed this with Rick Tucci , 7 time Olympic referee and Fila Instructor and we are in agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefthanded Headlock Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I'm not at all familiar with greco but if the move is legal than ok if not then illegal. It's pretty straight forward in greco you are either going to get tossed or be the one attacking. So you're saying if the move isn't legal then it's illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 There is a point in contact sports when you have to draw a line and protect the athletes. Wrestling, in all styles, is about control and taking risk. In any hold you are demonstrating control of, or lack of, your opponent. I have not even seen this video, but I can picture the situation from the conversation. If you allow any level of athlete to simply impose injury on another your school board is going to start building swimming pools and soccer fields so fast your head will spin. In every contact sport there are rules to protect defenseless opponents: spearing & clipping in football, or MMA - you can't knee in the head while on the ground. Sport is sport. We all like to dramatize our favorite sports by comparing it to war or battle, but the rules should be written and enforced so that we don't have to discuss videos like this. There should be no question, this is not worth the risk, stop the match, it's brutality, check your ego and make the common sense decision to protect the PERSON... no conversation necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Found this one today on Flo http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/play/188577 Most of the video features decent moves. However, the move at the 45sec mark is another one were a wrestler puts huge emphasis on showing off and little emphasis on safty. I know freestyle/greco throws can get a little dangerous but at least attempting to return your opponent in a semi-controlled fashion would be nice to see. You can tell the ref in this one is a little wet under the ears still. If at all possible I've always said the top refs at a meet should be in charge of all junior level matches (and cadet if possible) because of the danger factor. But then that leaves all the youngers refs to the rath of the crazy little kids parents so its a catch-22 in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 OMG Matt. I just watched the vid you posted and that is absolutely ridiculous. If that were my boy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm not at all familiar with greco but if the move is legal than ok if not then illegal. It's pretty straight forward in greco you are either going to get tossed or be the one attacking. So you're saying if the move isn't legal then it's illegal? All I'm saying is that if you are going to wrestle you should know that that guy accrossed from you is there to win and if he can beat you using LEGAL moves then thats the way it goes. Now I'm not sure of the rules in greco BUT if this move IS legal then carry on and IF it is ilegal then the thrower should be deducted one point or what ever the ref decides. Bottom line, when you step on the mat in freestyle or greco it's a lot more mono e mono then highschool wrestling when you sign up for a tourny you know high calliber guys can too if you've got the nads to go out there you'd better deffend yourself. I do not condone this being legal for younger wrestlers only more expierenced wrestlers. For you older guys out there do you remember DJ Radnavidge from Gibson Southern? If he were to wrestle you he'd stay within the rules but could put quite a hurtin' on you pretty quick. If you went out there you knew this, I see this as pretty much the same thing IF it's legal then so be it, either throw or get thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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