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What I See As Benefit To Class Wrestling


1oldwrestler

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Y2 you can pull the wool over everone elses eyes but not mine.  Your the minority when it comes to changing class wrestling and the numbers will prove it.  You can't use your site and your statistics to prove jack.  You have the agenda and you scew everything.  Illinois has classes i think you said and there fans voted that it hurt the sport.  Let me guess Y2 you coach at a small school?  Your not getting a pity party for me team states are only for the coaches and wrestling is an individual sport.  Basically i'm calling you out.  I want to know why we need to change a sysytem that has had a smaller school win the wrestling state title 5 of the last ten years.  I also want to no why wrestling less competition throughout a season will benifit the wrestler.  It only benifits the small school coaches.  Small school coaches are just ego driven and thats a fact.  If you care about the wrestlers more then you care about yourselfs you would do whats best for them and thats to not class an individual sport like wrestling.  Karl hingus you can be lumped in with this agenda driven man also.  So If either of you want to say what we will do with matre dei, or why wrestling worse end of the year tournements will help our sport I would be glad to listen.  Y2 your not for the wrestler and you know it all you want is a lil recognition.  Heres your recognition your running this board with only one thing on your mind changing to class wrestling.  Everyone knows it.  So whenever you can tell me what your going to do bout those two problems I'd love to here.

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Y2 you can pull the wool over everone elses eyes but not mine.  Your the minority when it comes to changing class wrestling and the numbers will prove it.  You can't use your site and your statistics to prove jack.  You have the agenda and you scew everything.  Illinois has classes i think you said and there fans voted that it hurt the sport.  Let me guess Y2 you coach at a small school?  Your not getting a pity party for me team states are only for the coaches and wrestling is an individual sport.  Basically i'm calling you out.  I want to know why we need to change a sysytem that has had a smaller school win the wrestling state title 5 of the last ten years.  I also want to no why wrestling less competition throughout a season will benifit the wrestler.  It only benifits the small school coaches.  Small school coaches are just ego driven and thats a fact.  If you care about the wrestlers more then you care about yourselfs you would do whats best for them and thats to not class an individual sport like wrestling.  Karl hingus you can be lumped in with this agenda driven man also.  So If either of you want to say what we will do with matre dei, or why wrestling worse end of the year tournements will help our sport I would be glad to listen.  Y2 your not for the wrestler and you know it all you want is a lil recognition.  Heres your recognition your running this board with only one thing on your mind changing to class wrestling.  Everyone knows it.  So whenever you can tell me what your going to do bout those two problems I'd love to here.

 

:o  Zoinks!

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I agree that the number of state qualifiers should be proportional to the number of students.  Y2 always mentions the argument that every school gets to enter 14 wrestlers at sectionals so it should be equal.  However, the true first round(s) of sectionals are wrestled in the room as wrestle-offs.  Every wrestler in the state has an opportunity to qualify for state - not just the 14 that compete at sectionals.

 

Y2 - When you read this - I don't understand why you dismiss the JV wrestlers with this argument when you emphasize the importance of having many JV wrestlers as partners when you argue the advantage big schools have with the extra guys in the practice room.  In my mind, you have to choose one argument or the other.  Either is an excellent point for class wrestling, but you simply cannot have both.

GrecoCoach,

This is where we differ in opinions.  My belief is that in a single class system every school, every team is deemed equal to eachother no matter how many students roam the hall.  If those schools were deemed to be inequal, then there would be classes, such as there are for other sports.

 

Bigger schools are going to generally have more practice partners and JV wrestlers and higher quality ones on top of that.  Those will always help produce better teams AND individuals.  That is one of the many inequalities of a school that has 1000 kids has over a school with 500 kids. 

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Less guys in the room also allows for more individual attention with the wrestlers.  So there are perks to both sides.  Its also not as much about the quanity of the practice partner as it is the quality.  I can put 14 bad wrestlers in a room and have 14 bad wrestlers at the end of the day.  Or i can put two good wrestlers and have two great wrestlers at the end of the day.  There is enough talent at every single school to have a state level team.  Better programs just bring in better wrestlers cause thats what they want to do when they get older.  Its simple win the community over and compete for titles.  Small schools have done it in the past and will do it in the future.  No one, besides coaches, care more about there team success then their individual success.  Its an individual sport and everyone knows it. 

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Y2 you can pull the wool over everone elses eyes but not mine.

Oh joy, you are probably the smartest person here, the agenda is out there.  Look at the topic starters concerning class wrestling.  Only one of them has been one of the big three class supporters(tspray, me and Karl Hungus).  

 

 

Your the minority when it comes to changing class wrestling and the numbers will prove it.  

More and more people are supporting class wrestling than even a couple years ago.  More people are realizing that the caveman attitude of a single champ doesn't fly anymore.  More people are tired of living in the 1950's with Hoosiers.

 

You can't use your site and your statistics to prove jack.  

This site is used to promote the sport of wrestling.  I think in the short time it has existed it has done a superb job of doing that.  Like I have said earlier if you do not like this site or the principles it was founded upon, please do not patronize it.  The statistics I post on the class wrestling topics do show the inequalities between big and small schools.

 

You have the agenda and you scew everything.

Please tell me what I have "screwed up," I'm curious as to what I have done so deeply wrong.

 

Illinois has classes i think you said and there fans voted that it hurt the sport.  

Approximately 70% of the coaches voted to add another class.  I think that says enough about the people that know more about the sport than the fans.  I would trust people that are on the coaching side knowing what is best for the sport.

 

Let me guess Y2 you coach at a small school?  

What tipped you off, the name of the high school I coach at in my signature?  

 

Your not getting a pity party for me team states are only for the coaches and wrestling is an individual sport.  

Is this one sentence or two?  I have never asked for pity from anyone.  Whether there is one class or 10 classes I will still work my butt off for the kids.  I expect no sympathy from anyone.

 

Basically i'm calling you out.

Oh joy... I'm really excited about this!

 

I want to know why we need to change a sysytem that has had a smaller school win the wrestling state title 5 of the last ten years.

Because wrestling is dying at the small school level.  Plain and simple wrestling is not healthy at smaller schools.  Mater Dei is not a typical small school due to the fact that they are a parochial school.  If you can show me a public school of any size that has 99% graduation rate, 98% attendance, and 95% of their students that attend a two or four year college after graduation I will consider them a typical small school.  

 

I also want to no why wrestling less competition throughout a season will benifit the wrestler.  It only benifits the small school coaches.  Small school coaches are just ego driven and thats a fact.

Wow that is a strong statement.  I 100% disagree on that one.  If we are so ego driven why would Garrett revamp their schedule to include Bellmont, Yorktown, Peru, LaPorte and Huntington North?  

 

If you care about the wrestlers more then you care about yourselfs you would do whats best for them and thats to not class an individual sport like wrestling.  

I care about the kids and the health of the sport.  The health of the sport at the small school level is not good.  Too many teams struggle to field a full team and they are losing kids year in year out due to little to no success.  

 

Karl hingus you can be lumped in with this agenda driven man also.  So If either of you want to say what we will do with matre dei, or why wrestling worse end of the year tournements will help our sport I would be glad to listen.  Y2 your not for the wrestler and you know it all you want is a lil recognition.  Heres your recognition your running this board with only one thing on your mind changing to class wrestling.  Everyone knows it.  So whenever you can tell me what your going to do bout those two problems I'd love to here.

Mater Dei can do what they want if and when class wrestling is implemented.  The IHSAA allows for schools to bump up a class in other classed sports.  Their administration and coaches can decide what is best for them.  It is not my decision on what they would do.  

 

Class wrestling in other states has not hurt their wrestling and has kept their small school programs healthy and vibrant.  That is what I want for Indiana wrestling.  We have too many small school programs that are on the edge of extinction.  In an economy where schools are looking to cut corners, wrestling could and probably will be one of the first sports axed if it has low participation numbers.  

 

As I have stated numerous times, this site is for the promotion of the sport of wrestling in Indiana.  I have NEVER pushed my views onto anyone.  People will be able to make their own choices, I will present my case and others will present their case.  More and more people are seeing that a classed state tournament is not as horrible as some people have claimed.  I was once someone who did not think class wrestling would be good for the state.  After coaching at Northrop for a year and Garrett I saw the numerous differences and inequalities of the schools.  

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Quote from: manvswild1 on Today at 04:37:35 AM

You have the agenda and you scew everything.

Please tell me what I have "screwed up," I'm curious as to what I have done so deeply wrong.

 

 

Quote from: manvswild1 on Today at 04:37:35 AM

Illinois has classes i think you said and there fans voted that it hurt the sport. 

Approximately 70% of the coaches voted to add another class.  I think that says enough about the people that know more about the sport than the fans.  I would trust people that are on the coaching side knowing what is best for the sport.

 

Your an idiot you just scewed that.  The facts are that coaches wrestlers and fans were polled and they decided it was bad for the system.  You can take your selected group and say see coaches didn't like it, but fact of the matter is wrestling people of this state pay for the services of the ihsaa.  You work for me and I do not work for you.  So my opinion does matter and i will continue saying it.

 

Quote from: manvswild1 on Today at 04:37:35 AM

I also want to no why wrestling less competition throughout a season will benifit the wrestler.  It only benifits the small school coaches.  Small school coaches are just ego driven and thats a fact.

"Wow that is a strong statement.  I 100% disagree on that one.  If we are so ego driven why would Garrett revamp their schedule to include Bellmont, Yorktown, Peru, LaPorte and Huntington North?  "

 

Well your school must be competitive if they are able to sign schools like that so why are you crying.  If its not to be in a small class to have a false sense of accomplisment at the team level.  Everyone wants their programs to succeed people who really want it work harder instead of try and change the system to fit their own wants.

 

"Mater Dei can do what they want if and when class wrestling is implemented.  The IHSAA allows for schools to bump up a class in other classed sports.  Their administration and coaches can decide what is best for them.  It is not my decision on what they would do."

Quote from: manvswild1 on Today at 04:37:35 AM

I want to know why we need to change a sysytem that has had a smaller school win the wrestling state title 5 of the last ten years.

"Because wrestling is dying at the small school level.  Plain and simple wrestling is not healthy at smaller schools.  Mater Dei is not a typical small school due to the fact that they are a parochial school.  If you can show me a public school of any size that has 99% graduation rate, 98% attendance, and 95% of their students that attend a two or four year college after graduation I will consider them a typical small school."

 

So really what your saying is screw the smaller class with matre dei in it.  Your out for you and only you.  Its clear to see you have no answers for that question.  The truth is they compete at high levels in any division just like all schools can.  Who cares how many people they graduate that has nothing to do with the wrestling aspect of things.  If you believe it has a big deal to do with the wrestling why don't you work on improving attendance and different things like that instead of trying to descecrate the sport of wrestling.

 

If you care about the wrestlers more then you care about yourselfs you would do whats best for them and thats to not class an individual sport like wrestling. 

"I care about the kids and the health of the sport.  The health of the sport at the small school level is not good.  Too many teams struggle to field a full team and they are losing kids year in year out due to little to no success." 

 

How many of the bottom 100 schools by size fill a whole wrestling roster.  If we take a 3 class system we already down to 102 teams.  I just want to know how many teams would actually have a chance at a state title in this system.  It would be an absolute joke and I hate to tell you this but classing the sport the bad teams would still be bad.  Like in football most teams tend to wrestle schools of the same skill level and these teams that can't fill a roster won't have any more wrestler because there still going to be bad in the new system.  Win a community to win a program don't try and make everything equal it will never ever be. 

 

 

Remember the ihsaa works for us and not us for them.  Coaches can think what they want but we still have a say, and this is the USA Y2J and my opinion matters just as much as yours wheater your a coach or not. 

 

 

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Your an idiot you just scewed that.  The facts are that coaches wrestlers and fans were polled and they decided it was bad for the system.  You can take your selected group and say see coaches didn't like it, but fact of the matter is wrestling people of this state pay for the services of the ihsaa.  You work for me and I do not work for you.  So my opinion does matter and i will continue saying it.

The fact is coaches and the state associations make the changes, not the fans.  Also, the personal attacks will be put to a halt immediately.  Calling people names is not going to be tolerated on this messageboard. 

 

Well your school must be competitive if they are able to sign schools like that so why are you crying.  If its not to be in a small class to have a false sense of accomplisment at the team level.  Everyone wants their programs to succeed people who really want it work harder instead of try and change the system to fit their own wants.

Me crying?  Are you serious?  You look like the one that is crying and going ballistic that you know class wrestling could happen in the near future.  You are the one rambling in incoherent sentences and fragments about how wrestling will die if we go to a class system. 

 

[sarcasm]I guess when Jimtown wins state in football it gives them a false sense of accomplishment too.  Classed football has truly hurt the sport there.  The sport suffers so much because it is classed.  We don't know who the true champion is and that has ruined the sport huh?  [/sarcasm]

 

 

So really what your saying is screw the smaller class with matre dei in it.  Your out for you and only you.  Its clear to see you have no answers for that question.  The truth is they compete at high levels in any division just like all schools can.  Who cares how many people they graduate that has nothing to do with the wrestling aspect of things.   If you believe it has a big deal to do with the wrestling why don't you work on improving attendance and different things like that instead of trying to descecrate the sport of wrestling.

I am out for the good of the sport.  I could care less about myself in this fight.  If I was as ego driven as you think I am, I surely wouldn't be an assistant coach, I would go somewhere where I could really use my ego to my advantage as a head coach.  Mater Dei is on a different level.  The families at Mater Dei pay over $4000 for their kids to go to school there.  I have kids on the team that can't afford a $1.50 lunch every day, let alone a $20 shorts and shirt packet.  If you can't see the differences between a private/parochial school and a public one, you are pretty blind and naive. 

 

How many of the bottom 100 schools by size fill a whole wrestling roster.  If we take a 3 class system we already down to 102 teams.  I just want to know how many teams would actually have a chance at a state title in this system.  It would be an absolute joke and I hate to tell you this but classing the sport the bad teams would still be bad.  Like in football most teams tend to wrestle schools of the same skill level and these teams that can't fill a roster won't have any more wrestler because there still going to be bad in the new system.  Win a community to win a program don't try and make everything equal it will never ever be. 

A lot more teams would have a chance at a state title in a three class system than the current one.  Right now the team state finals is for about 20 teams in the state.  The other 290 teams have virtually no shot at a title.

 

Remember the ihsaa works for us and not us for them.  Coaches can think what they want but we still have a say, and this is the USA Y2J and my opinion matters just as much as yours wheater your a coach or not. 

The IHSAA works for the principals, administrators and coaches, not the fans. 

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The Ihsaa gets paid by the fans and wrestlers so maybe you should rethink those stratagies.  This is not a dictatorship and yoru facts are scewed to what you would like to believe.  Big deal 70% of coaches liked the change the majority of the people did not.  Didn't you say you wanted class wrestling for the good of the sport?  Fans don't like it.  So don't do it.  Numbers won't go up when support goes down.  Its as simple as that.  Football classing is great for cause there are not things like wieght classes to equal the compitition, but compare wrestling to basketball.  The state has lost money on attendance since the change has occured, also participation ammoung other things are down.  Wrestling is way more like basketball then football when you look at team size and ability to succeed even with a smaller school.  Yes, economics are different for Matre Dei, but does that mean the richer you are the better you are at wrestling.  What is your point I see the difference I just do not see how it would effect wrestling performance.  Maybe they get an extra camp or something but your program could be doing what there doing.  I am not crying I don't want the change your the one whos trying to shove it down our throats.  Wrestlers didn't like it in Illinois enough said if your not changing it for them then shut it.

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Y2 you can pull the wool over everone elses eyes but not mine.

Oh joy, you are probably the smartest person here, the agenda is out there.  Look at the topic starters concerning class wrestling.  Only one of them has been one of the big three class supporters(tspray, me and Karl Hungus).  

 

 

Your the minority when it comes to changing class wrestling and the numbers will prove it.  

More and more people are supporting class wrestling than even a couple years ago.  More people are realizing that the caveman attitude of a single champ doesn't fly anymore.  More people are tired of living in the 1950's with Hoosiers.

 

 

CAVEMAN ATTITUDE, i sir take offense  ;D

 

edit:

after reading the lat 5-6 posts, maybe manvswild1 people would listen if 90% of your posts wernt about how "evil" y2 and the class supporters are, you act as if this is comic book land and the EVIL MAD SCIENTIST y2 and his gang of misfits is out to wrong the world, so far i have seen substantial evidence from him and little from you your main arguement boils down "to your a bad man"

 

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Why is it a caveman attitude to want to be the best?  I think it is liberal attitudes like these that make some of the worst rules.  Lets not keep track of score in little leagues and all those rediculous things.  Guess what life is a compitition and you can achieve whatever you like as long as you put in the work.  That includes state titles individual and team.  Were making equality more important then anything and in changing systems we make it less equal.  Matre Dei will win 80 in a row if we change it.  Is that equal?  Is that better then our current system?

So take your caveman lines and shove them just because I would like my child to no a thing or two about compition and every man being equal doesn't mean I am a caveman.  Maybe a lil old  fashion but nothing wrong with that. 

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I was just curious of your background in wrestling that is all.  Did you wrestle in high school or college, if so where?

 

Did you happen to go to the Culver Classic this year?  Did you see the great numbers of those small school teams?  I would suspect that those are the future powerhouse teams in the state(note sarcasm)! 

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Oh make fun of the wrestlers your a real piece of work.  Honestly I thought you were for the kids.  A lot of these kids work pretty hard to get where they are and you want to come down on them screw you.  Besides that we will have quality programs coming up.  If you want to yell at me fine if you want to take a shot at the kids now we got a problem.  Your nothing but a punk.

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Oh make fun of the wrestlers your a real piece of work.  Honestly I thought you were for the kids.  A lot of these kids work pretty hard to get where they are and you want to come down on them screw you.  Besides that we will have quality programs coming up.  If you want to yell at me fine if you want to take a shot at the kids now we got a problem.  Your nothing but a punk.

 

Relax.  Ask your own coach about the health of wrestling at Triton and what he thinks class wrestling might do for the program that he coached for nearly 40 years.  If you think Coach Davis is ego driven in his feelings you will officially have zero credibility.

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  The state has lost money on attendance since the change has occured, also participation ammoung other things are down.  Wrestling is way more like basketball then football when you look at team size and ability to succeed even with a smaller school. 

 

Class basketball surely hasn't hurt Triton's basketball program.  Basketball participation is down?? Where is your evidence?  Where is your evidence that small schools can compete in unclassed wrestling?

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I coach at a small school, and this is my first year but I have not seen any problem with my wrestlers being recruited.  Of my group of 4 seniors each were looked at by D2 and D3 schools, and of them only made it to state.  This is the part that confuses me about the class wrestling argument.  I mean are we trying to fool the colleges into thinking that the wrestlers at the small schools are better than they are?  Dont you guys think that a college coach will be able to pick through who is ligit, and who isn't? On that same token if the big schools are so superior to the small schools that we need to class the  competition to have the wrestlers compete wouldn't a college coach just go after a wrestler who placed in the "big" tournament.  I dont see how placing in a inferior tournament would help small school wrestlers to get looked at by colleges, they are the same wrestlers that we had before just with "trumped" up statistics.

 

Can you small class supports respond to buscowrestling's comments?

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I coach at a small school, and this is my first year but I have not seen any problem with my wrestlers being recruited.  Of my group of 4 seniors each were looked at by D2 and D3 schools, and of them only made it to state.  This is the part that confuses me about the class wrestling argument.  I mean are we trying to fool the colleges into thinking that the wrestlers at the small schools are better than they are?  Dont you guys think that a college coach will be able to pick through who is ligit, and who isn't? On that same token if the big schools are so superior to the small schools that we need to class the  competition to have the wrestlers compete wouldn't a college coach just go after a wrestler who placed in the "big" tournament.  I dont see how placing in a inferior tournament would help small school wrestlers to get looked at by colleges, they are the same wrestlers that we had before just with "trumped" up statistics.

 

Can you small class supports respond to buscowrestling's comments?

 

I agree, it was one of the most thought out and logical responses I have seen.

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I coach at a small school, and this is my first year but I have not seen any problem with my wrestlers being recruited.  Of my group of 4 seniors each were looked at by D2 and D3 schools, and of them only made it to state.  This is the part that confuses me about the class wrestling argument.  I mean are we trying to fool the colleges into thinking that the wrestlers at the small schools are better than they are?  Dont you guys think that a college coach will be able to pick through who is ligit, and who isn't? On that same token if the big schools are so superior to the small schools that we need to class the  competition to have the wrestlers compete wouldn't a college coach just go after a wrestler who placed in the "big" tournament.  I dont see how placing in a inferior tournament would help small school wrestlers to get looked at by colleges, they are the same wrestlers that we had before just with "trumped" up statistics.

 

I find it hard to believe that they were all being recruited at the level in which he states.  One of the kids never made it past sectional until this year and didn't even wrestle last year due to an injury.  Another one was a 1x regional qualifier before this season.   I could see two of them being recruited, but not as heavily as he would lead on, one being a state qualifier and the other a 2x semi-state qualifier.  I would expect schools like Trine and Manchester to go after these kids as they are local kids.  

 

Of course I also had a kid that was being recruited by a DIII school and he had never even qualified for regional before or after this season.  I could leave out the little bit of information that he talked to a coach from that school and filled out a questionnaire too, but I won't.  This school also was failing to go after a Fargo placer, state qualifier and a (now)two-time semi-state qualifier.  I have had other kids that were placers or qualifiers that did not get a sniff from college coaches because its way too late in February to start recruiting a new kid.

 

 

 

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Oh make fun of the wrestlers your a real piece of work.  Honestly I thought you were for the kids.  A lot of these kids work pretty hard to get where they are and you want to come down on them screw you.  Besides that we will have quality programs coming up.  If you want to yell at me fine if you want to take a shot at the kids now we got a problem.  Your nothing but a punk.

what the hell dude? calm down, im not for class wrestling but but im also not for anything you say, what exactly did y2 do to make you call him a punk and an idiot, he hasnt said anything thats not true, fabio's post about you is absolutly true your only arguments include some form of insults

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why ban me.  This site does have an agenda. if they do ban me it just shows that this boards greatest patriot, has to  have his voice snipped.  You may not like me but I do stand for a just cause purifying the sport.  Keeping the good that is Indiana wrestling.

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Because I'm bored, and have been reading this whole thread.............

NCAA 2009 Champions:

125# Troy Nickerson

Cornell

Chenango Forks High School

Chenango Forks, New York

 

133# Franklin Gomez

Michigan State

Brandon High School

Brandon, Fl

 

141# J. Jaggers

Ohio State

St. Peter Chanel High School

Bedford, Ohio

 

149# Darrion Caldwell

North Carolina State

Rahway High School

Rahway, New Jersey

 

157# Jordan Burroughs

Nebraska

Winslow Township High School

Winslow Township, New Jersey

 

165# Jarrod King

Edinboro

Connellsville High School

Connellsville, Pennsylvania

 

174# Steve Luke

Michigan

Perry High School

Perry, Ohio

 

184# Jake Herbert

Northwestern

North Allegheny High School

Wexford, Pennsylvania

 

197# Jake Varner

Iowa State

Bakersfield High School

Bakersfield, California

 

285# Mark Ellis

Missouri

Raymore-Peculiar High School

Peculiar, Missouri

 

Just throwing out trivia.

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