Jump to content

What I See As Benefit To Class Wrestling


1oldwrestler

Recommended Posts

Here's something to chew on though.  Shouldn't the number of wrestlers placing at state be proportional to their school's size?  So if say, Pioneer gets 1 state placer and they have 300 students, shouldn't it be expected that CP gets 10 placers if they have 3,000 students?  These are completely made up numbers, but it shows you that per capita, the little schools are doing just as well as the big schools.  Now the team tournament....well that's a different story.

 

I agree that the number of state qualifiers should be proportional to the number of students.  Y2 always mentions the argument that every school gets to enter 14 wrestlers at sectionals so it should be equal.  However, the true first round(s) of sectionals are wrestled in the room as wrestle-offs.  Every wrestler in the state has an opportunity to qualify for state - not just the 14 that compete at sectionals.

 

Y2 - When you read this - I don't understand why you dismiss the JV wrestlers with this argument when you emphasize the importance of having many JV wrestlers as partners when you argue the advantage big schools have with the extra guys in the practice room.  In my mind, you have to choose one argument or the other.  Either is an excellent point for class wrestling, but you simply cannot have both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 192
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

[table]

Lefthanded,

 

Then you are saying since those states are bigger, it's not fair to compare them and say they're better than Indiana?  Isn't that the same thing as saying one high school is bigger than another so it's not fair to compare the quality of wrestling programs?  And if it's not fair to compare them against one another, why is it fair to rank them through competition against one another? 

[/table]

 

were talking 1500 compared to a few millions.  Don't get me wrong i would love to see indiana at the top of the list, but realistically speaking we are more then 20 years away from that and one reason we may  be having such success at the college level like we are(humphreys, escobedo, tshirts, kinser, howe), might be that we have better competition throughout the season in the state tournement.  Also all of these wrestlers worked in the off season and wrestled out of state in national competitions.  There are plenty of competitive schools that are smaller, classing wrestling in indiana would hurt on a whole and there are tons of reasons for that.

1.  Wouldn't wrestle the best in the state.  How are you suppose to jump to wrestling the best in the nation.

2.  Catholic schools like matre dei would win smaller team state every year.

3.  There would be class A teams at team states with forfeits and thats just a joke

4.  Ask the wrestlers, and in other states they perfer non class wrestling.  All the coaches complaining quit whining, wrestling is an individual sport and you no it I dought you could name your highschools dual meet record as a senior but you definatly no your own and there is a reason for that.

5.  Its the purest tournement in the state of indiana right now and we keep screwing with it and making it easier and easier.  4 out of sectionals is kinda weak

 

1. Aren't we then hurting the 1A running back who doesn't get to compete against the best defenses in the state during the tournament?

2. I feel any school that can dictate who is allowed into the school should have an automatic class jump

3. Highly unlikely that the very best small schools in the state are forfeiting multiple weight classes year in and year out. 

4. I need data on a statement like that, not just "ask other wrestlers."

5. Again, bravado and chest-puffing.  The important thing is the health of our sport, not having the "purest tournament."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Aren't we then hurting the 1A running back who doesn't get to compete against the best defenses in the state during the tournament?

2. I feel any school that can dictate who is allowed into the school should have an automatic class jump

3. Highly unlikely that the very best small schools in the state are forfeiting multiple weight classes year in and year out. 

4. I need data on a statement like that, not just "ask other wrestlers."

5. Again, bravado and chest-puffing.  The important thing is the health of our sport, not having the "purest tournament."

 

1.  Football and wrestling are not comparable.  We could kind of compare basketball and show how classing the state title has ruined the sport.  Attendance is way down ammoung many other things.  Wrestling has wieght classes as their equaliser.

2.  Nice so again it is not the size of the school.  You can not have it both ways.  Their are several smaller catholic schools that do not have the greatest programs so making them jump classes in wrestling may cause the dismissal of a program in future years.  Were trying to promote the sport by  classing it i thought. 

3.  This is probably false at the top level of the smaller schools but the tournement for a 1 and 2 a school would be a joke in a ton of regionals with forfeits.  Plus section champs would have some forfeits and it just looks bad.

4.  Y2J put data up in another post and the numbers said that the state on a whole did not like it, but the coaches favored it like 70 % or something along those lines.  If its bad for the wrestlers its bad for the sport.

5.    We have changed the tournement like 3 times in the past eight years and I have heard arguements of wrestlebacks at semi state.  Basically the numbers of off season wrestling especially freestyle is spiraling downward.  Attendance is down what more do we need to do to hurt what was never broken.  "Chest pumping", yeah let me tell you who wants the class systems.  Its the small school coach who is struggling because he's not working hard enough in the off season.  Basically this is only for the coaches I haven't ever heard a wrestler say gosh I wish we weren't wrestling such a big school tonight were going to get smoked. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think a poll should be added

 

 

What comes first for wrestling; indiviualism or team?

 

You could argue that there's alot of individualistic mindsets in football and basketball as well.  Examples, Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think a poll should be added

 

 

What comes first for wrestling; indiviualism or team?

 

You could argue that there's alot of individualistic mindsets in football and basketball as well.  Examples, Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens.

 

Two idiot WR. Both of which I wouldn't put on my team if you payed me the kind of money they think they deserve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Aren't we then hurting the 1A running back who doesn't get to compete against the best defenses in the state during the tournament?

2. I feel any school that can dictate who is allowed into the school should have an automatic class jump

3. Highly unlikely that the very best small schools in the state are forfeiting multiple weight classes year in and year out. 

4. I need data on a statement like that, not just "ask other wrestlers."

5. Again, bravado and chest-puffing.  The important thing is the health of our sport, not having the "purest tournament."

 

1.  Football and wrestling are not comparable.  We could kind of compare basketball and show how classing the state title has ruined the sport.  Attendance is way down ammoung many other things.  Wrestling has wieght classes as their equaliser.

2.  Nice so again it is not the size of the school.  You can not have it both ways.  Their are several smaller catholic schools that do not have the greatest programs so making them jump classes in wrestling may cause the dismissal of a program in future years.  Were trying to promote the sport by  classing it i thought. 

3.  This is probably false at the top level of the smaller schools but the tournement for a 1 and 2 a school would be a joke in a ton of regionals with forfeits.  Plus section champs would have some forfeits and it just looks bad.

4.  Y2J put data up in another post and the numbers said that the state on a whole did not like it, but the coaches favored it like 70 % or something along those lines.  If its bad for the wrestlers its bad for the sport.

5.    We have changed the tournement like 3 times in the past eight years and I have heard arguements of wrestlebacks at semi state.  Basically the numbers of off season wrestling especially freestyle is spiraling downward.  Attendance is down what more do we need to do to hurt what was never broken.  "Chest pumping", yeah let me tell you who wants the class systems.  Its the small school coach who is struggling because he's not working hard enough in the off season.  Basically this is only for the coaches I haven't ever heard a wrestler say gosh I wish we weren't wrestling such a big school tonight were going to get smoked. 

 

 

I addressed most of those comments in the other string on this subject, so I will respond to #5...I hate this argument.  In addition to wrestling, I coach varsity football, middle school wrestling, and middle school track.  Again, being from a small school if I am not coaching MS track and wrestling, then no one is or worse.  And I think it is important for me to be part of the football team because I press the wrestlers to be part of a fall sport.  Don't tell me I am not working hard.  At a small school everyone has to support all of the sports or the sports die. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im not going to throw you a pity party but i do want to say i commend you on what all you do for your community.    I find it hard to believe that their are no teachers or parents that will help out in your local athletic programs.  Maybe that is the problem.  If the parents and teachers helped out with different things like at many other schools maybe their would be higher success rates.  It may not be your fault but sometimes thats how the cookie crumbles.  It happens at bigger schools as well.  Many teams don't have off season programs no matter the size.  To be truly great you have to dedicate yourself to your programs whatever they may be.  Your own personal experience can not change my mind that class wrestling is a horrible idea.  It hurts the wrestlers and thats who i care about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we are all looking for what's best for the wrestlers.  We just differ in opinion right now.  I am not looking for a pity party, I just get a little twisted when people comment that smalls schools are unsuccessful due to coaches not doing enough.  In no way am I saying that a coach at a big school doesn't have to work hard to be successful.  Hopefully nothing I have said or will say comes out to sound like that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not so much that the small schools aren't doing a good job.  It's just that the big schools are generally going to be better, on average, because they've got a bigger student pool and community to work with.  Y2 has put some #'s up here showing how big schools outnumber small schools for state qualifiers by like 3 to 1.  I'm willing to bet that in the top tier states that are classed, you'd see a similar ratio with regards to their best wrestlers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok for everyone who thinks this system is flawed or broke, name one time that Indiana has had more success in the college level then right now.  Name one time where you can rememeber more parity at the top of the state as well.  Teams are getting better individuals are working harder the sport is great how it is and its still on the rise.  Basically Quit whining we have a great thing going on.  As far as y2j and his scewed numbers don't listen to them.  All that the numbers he put up show is that small schools are way more competitive then they should be.  He shows that the state pool by percentages has more small schoolers making it to state then big.  If anything those numbers should be used to show that big schools do not do their due diligents for the sport.

 

Im tired of hearing about Y2J and his cronies trying to change wrestling to class.  Lets face it the system isn't broke and for all you small school coaches boo hoo work a little harder.  If you would like to break it give the team title for small classes to matre dei if not work harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok for everyone who thinks this system is flawed or broke, name one time that Indiana has had more success in the college level then right now.  Name one time where you can rememeber more parity at the top of the state as well.  Teams are getting better individuals are working harder the sport is great how it is and its still on the rise.  Basically Quit whining we have a great thing going on.  As far as y2j and his scewed numbers don't listen to them.  All that the numbers he put up show is that small schools are way more competitive then they should be.  He shows that the state pool by percentages has more small schoolers making it to state then big.  If anything those numbers should be used to show that big schools do not do their due diligents for the sport.

 

Im tired of hearing about Y2J and his cronies trying to change wrestling to class.  Lets face it the system isn't broke and for all you small school coaches boo hoo work a little harder.  If you would like to break it give the team title for small classes to matre dei if not work harder.

 

Data versus your ranting about coaches not working hard...hmm tough decision on whose side to be on in this issue.  So by your definition the system in the vast majority of states is broke, that's silly talk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Karl Hungus you can slant what I say however you like.  Fact of the matter Y2 recently put up a poll showing that the people of another state didn't like the change to class wrestling.  He then tryed to cover it up by saying that 70 percent of coaches liked it.  Lets face it whoever is running this board has an agenda.  Its clear to see they want class wrestling and want to push it onto everyone like it is an undisputed fact that it will help the state.  Last I checked this was the good ole USA and my opinions can matter.  They have been running this board like Communist Russia and I for one am fed up with it.  The truth is the only people who would like to see classed state are the small school coaches.  They have given up even though the system has had Matre Dei win state titles in the past 5 years.  So you scew the numbers anyways you like post all the bull literature on class wrestling you want, a lot of people truly believe the system is great how it is.  Push your agenda all that you want the people of Indiana will speak and we know that if team classing happens individual will follow and it will weaken the sport on a whole.  Poll the wrestlers and we will see, if you want fact that the state is good, then poll them who matter.  Again if you want more fact look at the current system Matre Dei a small school wins on a very consistent basis.  Lastly anyone who thinks this new board has an agenda right yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Manvswild1

 

Here goes !!! Everyone has agendas otherwise why would you post on this board. God knows you ares as vocal and opinionated as anyone, including myself ;D This board is way less biased than the former discussion board, which I felt was a board of coaches good ole boys. If I had created this board I would be plugging my agenda too. Nothing wrong with that. So I say NO more or less than anyone else or any other forum does this board have an agenda. Just keep it civil and let the dart throwing begin !!  :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not been deleted I must admit that but there is a steady stream of interviews polls and articles that are posted on here weekly for as much as 6 months.  They do let people discuss I must admit but I still feel as though there is a definate bias toward class wrestling.  That being said I think the people who oppose it have to stand up now or the sport will be forever changed in Indiana.  This happens all the time in politics and this board needs both sides and I am trying to bring the latter of the two sides.  I am and always will be against classing the sport of wrestling and I do believe there is an agenda.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not been deleted I must admit that but there is a steady stream of interviews polls and articles that are posted on here weekly for as much as 6 months.  They do let people discuss I must admit but I still feel as though there is a definate bias toward class wrestling.  That being said I think the people who oppose it have to stand up now or the sport will be forever changed in Indiana.  This happens all the time in politics and this board needs both sides and I am trying to bring the latter of the two sides.  I am and always will be against classing the sport of wrestling and I do believe there is an agenda.

Oh yes there is an agenda, the agenda is to promote the sport of wrestling in Indiana.  If you don't like that agenda I will kindly show you the door.

 

Your conspiracy theory on the moderators on this board trying to shove this fictitious agenda on people is pretty sad.  This board has never censored any discussion on class wrestling on either side.  There are three instances of articles with a reference to class wrestling, the Eric McGill interview, Brad Traviolia interview and the Jeremy Hart interview.  Those all included ONE  and only ONE question about class wrestling.  There have been 115 articles posted on the main page and only three, yes three have anything to do with class wrestling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well how again is forcing class wrestling down my throat helping wrestling.  We are on this rise as a state.  Our national level atheletes are about where we should be and we are growing in that field.  It is sick to me that we change a good system.  This whole site and its makeup is class wrestling.  Maybe three articles but I would imagine 1000's of post from the top level guys on here have been about class wrestling.  Look that one up for me I have seen you on here posting every other line about it.  Classing the sport is killing the system.  Its done it to Indiana  Basketball.  Were to small to class the wrestling.  YOU HAVE AN AGENDA.  A VERY POWERFUL ONE THAT COULD RUIN THE SPORT AS WE KNOW IT.  ADMIT IT HOPE YOU SNEEK IT IN LIKE THE COLTS SNUCK OUT OF BALTIMORE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND I WILL MOVE ON TO A DIFFERENT TOPIC.  Be honest with everyone on here you have been pushing it on this site and everyone and their brothers no it and I for one will not fall for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I even started this site people knew I was for class wrestling and myself, tspray, and Karl Hungus made thousands of posts in support of it on the other site.  The views of those people have not changed since I started this site.  Until class wrestling is implemented I will always be in favor of a change.  My opinions however are not pressed upon everyone, everyone can form their own opinion and I will always produce the facts that support my opinion.  You are becoming the minority when it comes to supporting a single class state and you know it.  More and more people are beginning to see the benefits of a two or three class system.

 

This site will never censor opinions that are not supporting the moderator's opinions.  We have never done that and NEVER will do that.  Just because there are people on this site that help moderate it and keep it running support something does not mean that it is the site's agenda.  As I stated earlier, the agenda of this website is to promote the sport of wrestling and give recognition to the hardworking athletes and coaches throughout the state. 

 

If you continue to post here I would hope that you wear your tin foil hat so that the aliens in support of class wrestling don't manipulate your brainwaves.

n508012319_104782_9204.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Manvswild - Love the passion.  Think you're giving Y2 a bit too much credit, thinking he can single handedly class Indiana wrestling.  I don't think that just becasue some people on a website believe one way, that the IHSAA is going to snap to and change overnight.  You're doing a pretty good job of keeping it civil so let 'er rip.  Your opinion is just as valid as the next guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.