chuckm Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 With all the huge schools coming into the Merrillville SS the talent pool for the Logan regional is to small to expect them to be on equal footing.The numbers just aren't there if all else is equal and usually with the high regard Region schools place on wrestling the facilities and support aren't equal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 With all the huge schools coming into the Merrillville SS the talent pool for the Logan regional is to small to expect them to be on equal footing.The numbers just aren't there if all else is equal and usually with the high regard Region schools place on wrestling the facilities and support aren't equal Sounds like a good reason to have class wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I coach at a small school and I am not really for the class wrestling deal. I like how the tournamet is setup right now. Having 1 state champion in each weight class is an honor! ;D Plus I believe our state tournament is the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I coach at a small school and I am not really for the class wrestling deal. I like how the tournamet is setup right now. Having 1 state champion in each weight class is an honor! ;D Plus I believe our state tournament is the real deal. Would you advocate the same system for football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchs88 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You really can't compare the two unless your talking about team. Football is a complete team sport. Wrestling for the most part is all individual. There really is no need to have 2 or 3 state champs in ea weight class. Big or Small each wrestler has the same opportunity to improve themself in the off season. If your from a small school what would you rather have? NEVER competing against the big boys or having an opportunity to prove yourself as being a big boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 As a coach at a small school would you rather direct your wrestlers to spend their off season time and money strictly to improve their wrestling or would you advocate them playing other sports and spending their summers splitting time between two or three sports and still being a teenager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devildog47959 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I coach at a small school and I am not really for the class wrestling deal. I like how the tournamet is setup right now. Having 1 state champion in each weight class is an honor! ;D Plus I believe our state tournament is the real deal. Would you advocate the same system for football? You can't compare Class Football too Class wrestling.!!! In football the size of the school matters the more students you have the higher probability u have of getting bigger athletes. For example schools like WC or Ben Davis are always going to have that 6-3 250LBS O-line and those 6-4 Receivers.. And schools like Sheridan and Seeger might be lucky to have a handful of those guys. The bigger the school the bigger the pot is to pick your athletes from. So it makes sense to have classes so the playing field is equal. Now in wrestling it doesn?t matter how big your school is because everything is weight based. If your 125 that means you?re going to wrestled other 125lbs. So the playing level is already equal. 125 lbs is 125lbs no matter if you?re from a student body of 70 or from a student body of 3000. Compared to football where your line average is about 190-200 lbs at the 1A & 2A level compared to 250+ in 3, 4, & 5A. So yea there is no way you can compare class football to class wrestling. The only way you could have 1 class in football and make it equal is to make rules for each position. For example make every school have the same O and D-line averages. So WC and BD would have to adjust there lines to the size of the 1 and 2A. But that is never going to happen. Class football is fair and just. But to make wrestling a class sport would be a disaster. There is no need to divide by class. The field is already equal. To know that you are a SQ means your 1 of 16 wrestlers left at your weight class in the entire state. And that really means something. It gives guys from smaller school that chance to prove that they are just as good as athletes as guys from big schools. And it gives u such pride and motivation to know that you will have the chance to wrestle/beat every guy at your weight class in the entire state no matter what size his school is. So yea I would hate to see the day that is IHSAA divides wrestling into classes.... no need to try and fix something that isn't broken. Indiana High School wrestling is great because of the way it is run. 16 finalist 1 true champion. I can't imagine it being any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ben Davis or Warren Central is going to have a lot more 125 lbers to choose from. Therefore, it is a fundamentally unequal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I coach at a semi-small school and I do not want class wrestling. I do not care if they have 5 guys to pick from in every weight class, I'll take the one that came out for the team in that weight class. It means they are just as determined as the other schools guy at that weight class because they are there. I also let me wrestlers decide on if they want to do other sports. I am not going to pressure them into doing wrestling all year round. However, if they do not participate in a spring sport then strongly encourage them to do spring and summer wrestling. There is no reason for Indiana to go to class wrestling. I am proud to say I was 1 of 16 guys at state my senior year. It is a lot better than 1 of 32! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I coach at a semi-small school and I do not want class wrestling. I do not care if they have 5 guys to pick from in every weight class, I'll take the one that came out for the team in that weight class. It means they are just as determined as the other schools guy at that weight class because they are there. I also let me wrestlers decide on if they want to do other sports. I am not going to pressure them into doing wrestling all year round. However, if they do not participate in a spring sport then strongly encourage them to do spring and summer wrestling. There is no reason for Indiana to go to class wrestling. I am proud to say I was 1 of 16 guys at state my senior year. It is a lot better than 1 of 32! That is why you support a one class system, because being 1 of 16 is better then 1 of 32? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Like it has been stated multiple times...1 true champion! I am happy the way it is. That is all I'm saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 That's fine and I respect your opinion but would argue that the system in fundamentally unfair and that the IHSAA is inconsistant by classing some sports and not the others. I would rather see the IHSAA be both consistant and fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So track, swimming, cross country, golf, and whatever other sports have or dont have a class system should? Just wondering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If they are giving out team awards they should be classed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Unfair ??? What is so unfair about it ??? Because your kid couldn't beat that kid from the 4A or 5A school????? Because the kid worked his butt off to be a great wrestler???? You know what's not fair is that I live in a small town and we don't have a Walmart, that's not fair, because we have to travel 30 minutes to the nearest Walmart so I can get those cheap ROLL BACK Prices like everyone else, that's not fair, but we deal with it. I believe the IHSAA is as fair as they can get with wrestling. Wrestling is a sport that is for tough individuals who dedicate themselves to the sport, let it be from a small school or large school may the best INDIVIDUAL in their respective weight class win. There is always someone whinning about class wrestling, I remember this argument when my dad coached in the 90's, 80's and even hearing about it from the 70's. You know we all just need to look at the reality of all this, are we starting to be weak because of our society, trying to make more people winners???? Screw that, just suck it up and coach the kids to do the best they can do against the bigger schools because in the long run that's what really cares right now. Best of Luck to all the Logansport Semi-State Qualifiers and let's make some noise up in the da region!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I wrestled for Kokomo and Currently head coach at Pioneer I am for class wrestling. Too many reasons why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmarine77 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Unfair ??? What is so unfair about it ??? Because your kid couldn't beat that kid from the 4A or 5A school????? Because the kid worked his butt off to be a great wrestler???? You know what's not fair is that I live in a small town and we don't have a Walmart, that's not fair, because we have to travel 30 minutes to the nearest Walmart so I can get those cheap ROLL BACK Prices like everyone else, that's not fair, but we deal with it. I believe the IHSAA is as fair as they can get with wrestling. Wrestling is a sport that is for tough individuals who dedicate themselves to the sport, let it be from a small school or large school may the best INDIVIDUAL in their respective weight class win. There is always someone whinning about class wrestling, I remember this argument when my dad coached in the 90's, 80's and even hearing about it from the 70's. You know we all just need to look at the reality of all this, are we starting to be weak because of our society, trying to make more people winners???? Screw that, just suck it up and coach the kids to do the best they can do against the bigger schools because in the long run that's what really cares right now. Best of Luck to all the Logansport Semi-State Qualifiers and let's make some noise up in the da region!!!! WAHOO to you Bomber!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper1 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Unfair ??? What is so unfair about it ??? Because your kid couldn't beat that kid from the 4A or 5A school????? Because the kid worked his butt off to be a great wrestler???? You know what's not fair is that I live in a small town and we don't have a Walmart, that's not fair, because we have to travel 30 minutes to the nearest Walmart so I can get those cheap ROLL BACK Prices like everyone else, that's not fair, but we deal with it. I believe the IHSAA is as fair as they can get with wrestling. Wrestling is a sport that is for tough individuals who dedicate themselves to the sport, let it be from a small school or large school may the best INDIVIDUAL in their respective weight class win. There is always someone whinning about class wrestling, I remember this argument when my dad coached in the 90's, 80's and even hearing about it from the 70's. You know we all just need to look at the reality of all this, are we starting to be weak because of our society, trying to make more people winners???? Screw that, just suck it up and coach the kids to do the best they can do against the bigger schools because in the long run that's what really cares right now. Best of Luck to all the Logansport Semi-State Qualifiers and let's make some noise up in the da region!!!! Wahoo to Bomber X 2!!! Old Man Burvan is smiling down right now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 No offense to you Bomber, but how long has it been since you were around wrestling? Most old school guys will tell you 15+ years ago small schools could compete more. Now days kids are specializing more at the bigger schools whereas kids at schools like Pioneer play three sports so they can field team... let me give a run down on my team this past season 103 first year wrestler 2 sports (baseball, wrestling) 112 wrestled for awhile 2 sports (Football, Wrestling) 130 Few years exp 3 sports (Fottball, Wrestling, Baseball) 135 Few years exp 3 sports (Football, Wrestling, Track) 140 few years exp 2 sports (Football, Wrestling) 145 Few yeras exp 2 sports(Fottball, Wrestling 152 few yeas exp 2 sports (Wrestling, Baseball) 160 wrestled for ahwile 2 sports (Football, wrestling) 171 wrestled for ahwile 1 sport (Wrestling) 189 wrestled for awhile 2 sports (Football, wrestling) 215 first year wrestler 3 sports (Football, wrestling, baseball) 285 few years exp 3 sports (Football, Wrestling, Track) and that 1 kid that plays 1 sport used to play football as well til the last two seasons... and my 152 played football up to this year. Pioneer has to deal with basketball and swimming for participants... we have under 150 boys in the school divide that among three sports... oh btw basketball doesn't cut freshman at Pioneer they cut seniors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You and I are the same age, and I know fora fact 15 years ago small schools did a bit better than they do today...but mainly because of the old format of point scoring off individual performance rather than dual format.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 So you are telling me that at those big schools the kids only play 1 sport ??? I very highly doubt it. Just for example Marcus Shrewsberry of Crown Point is the starting quarterback for their football team, and was runner up in state last year in wrestling and looks to be headed that way again??? And that is just one example off the top of my head ;D Thats just a bunch of crap. Let's just make our kids feel like they don't have to work that hard like you did to earn that 5th place medal, like you did in the 90's. I am sure you worked your butt off to get that. Let's make it easier on our wrestlers because that is where our society as a whole is going (We live right now in what I like to call a FEEL GOOD SOCIETY) where you can't yell at a kid for his wrong doing without mommy or daddy calling you. You know what I mean TSpray!!! Do you even understand where the future is going right now??? Down easy street. Because everything is given to kids now a days. What I am saying is let's keep the sport out there where kids have to work their butts off to reach the top of the podium! ;D And by the way it dosen't matter how long I have been away from wrestling or what kids did 15 yrs ago because right now is all that matters making your kids better wrestlers so they can compete with the bigger schools!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The way its going now, the sport will die. How many other sports does Tsirtsis play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My kids play more than one sport, but they are still willing to give up extra time to learn more about wrestling. It's funny when you mention spring and summer wrestling, and the fact that you are willing to give up your time to help them they will want to participate. I live 30 min. away from my school, and I am technically not a "teacher" in the corporation yet, so I do not have a classroom. I do work in the school. So when 3:15 comes around I could go home, but I have decided to stay around and find stuff to do until the multi-sport athletes can make it to spring wrestling around 4:45. If you take the time you can still get them to participate in wrestling in the spring. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The way its going now, the sport will die. How many other sports does Tsirtsis play? Why because you haven't started a youth program????? ??? And not sure about the Tsirtsis kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Really going to use a 4xer to justify this statement? And if I remember correctly doesn't Griffith only have about 850 students? Sorry if I'm wrong on that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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