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  1. 10 points
    Ed Pendoski

    An Idea to Think About.

    Here's a thought that hit my brain a couple years ago and I'd like to know what other's think. When a kid transfers school there's almost always three sides of the equation. Parents say, "The IHSAA should let a family do what's best for the kid" and if the school a kid leaves decides to protest, they're quick to say "that move was for an athletic transfer which is not allowed". The school that receives the transfer says, "What am I supposed to do if a kid just showes up?" My thought here isn't touching any of those statements. We've all heard enough on Indianamat about this. Here's my thought that I'd like to know what others think...... What is going to happen to wrestling in the long run as a whole if the number of state placing transfers continues? Is wrestling going to become similar to gymnastics over time? How are the small school/weaker programs going to keep up numbers of participants and quality of participants? What about coaching at a smaller/weaker program? Wouldn't it be more attractive place to coach if a potential state qualifier was in the room? Here is gymnastics program from last year: http://www.ihsaa.org/portals/0/Flip Book/2017-18/gym/index.html#?page=8 If we continue on the growth in number of transfers, what happens to the smaller/weaker schools? How long before the smaller/weaker schools start to drop the sport. Once that starts happening, I'm concerned it will happen with other schools quickly. Are the number of forfeits from 1a schools increasing or decreasing in the past 5 years? What happens when a school has 5 guys on a team, and no one to coach them? I'm the Lorax. I speak for the trees. Are we ruining the future of Indiana wrestling with the amount of transfers?....but everyone needs a thneed, right? If my daughter has a child that want to wrestle (of course I mean 30 yrs from now, after she gets her MBA, starts her own business, and then is allowed to date for the first time), will Indiana wrestling be a sport with 40 schools and the same 4 teams compete for a title?
  2. 8 points
    Y2CJ41

    Moves and Transfers

    They don't add an S to Lions play off wins though.
  3. 5 points
    dstruck

    An Idea to Think About.

    Been reading this thread a while now as its a topic I find very interesting, last night I was reading, a book, with pages, and words and stuff and it made me think. I really don't think that my response here will help either side of the arguement, however shed some light coming from a different angle Its hard for coaches when kids transfer away, no doubt, you put time into that kid and love them. You take it personal. I do too. But just as some kids are born with more talent, and resources. Some schools and coaches have more kids and resources. Some great coaches are at schools with less resources and never get to shine, some not so great coaches are at schools with major resources and shine. (and it works the other way too). But in the end we take it personal. ------------------------ anyway, lately been reading like crazy, and this was something I thought really helped me with transfers and such, as I think it describes me, and some of you, AND MANY KIDS, so bear with me Its from DAVID AND GOLIATH from John C. Maxwell - i copy and pasted a chapter summary off the internet. Caroline Sachs, an above-average high schooler, was trying to decide which college to attend, University of Maryland or Brown University. The challenge of picking which school she should go to was most difficult. The majority of students wouldn’t even think twice about it because attending the school with a better reputation would look better on a job application, right? No. The problem with the students who chose the better school is that they do not realize is they will be among other students who were valedictorians and 4.0 scholars, immediately making her a little fish in this big sea. By choosing this, Caroline becomes an average student, which was a completely new concept for her. In the end, the decision she made ended up causing her to drop her intended major because it was too difficult and pick up a new one. This major was less appealing to her, and was not her passion. Now don’t you wonder what would have happened if she would have chose to be a big fish in a little pond? So does she. -- it might not sound the way i wanted it to, but the point of the chapter was that it is best for some kids to have the opportunity to be varsity for YOU at at your school. I would have never coached football if i had not went to my hometowns school.......Yeah, my senior year I started on an 0-10 team - but i started and played. I never would have made varsity at another football school. What transponded from that is me coaching football to this day. It gave me a chance. Wrestling, same thing.... I was the only kid on the team that didnt make the finals my senior year at sectional - I got third. Think if I would have went to one of the schools that I lost to, I wouldn't have made varsity. I most likely wouldnt be coaching today. Now, I don't know what to say about the kids that leave a program, many of us have had that happen. . They are gone, and we all have trouble forgetting that. But what helps me is knowing what going to my high school made me, and what it makes me do today. When kids leave, that leaves an amazing opportunity for someone else to grow as it did me. It made me a bigger fish in a smaller pond (starter at jennings county) rather than a small fish in a big pond......example: if I would have tried to wrestle for mater dei, i may have got discouraged never making varsity, and not coach today. I've had kids lave, that the weight class was open to a kid that was academic all state when he got it. Great opportunity for that kid to become the big fish. It helps me anyway to find peace with it, and know I'm doing good, and that kids get good out of being the "big fish in a small pond" here. I was. And other kids will get to be. I do believe in loyalty, and staying with a school (been at Jeff 17 years now despite chances to leave); but once a kid leaves, do the best you can with what you got and create an awesome opportunity for the next kid to be "the big fish". Don't get so mad the kid left that you neglect the next kid or we WILL FALL LIKE GYMNASTICS. Keep your numbers up despite the transfers, its your job to. what a rant. I really just wanted people to know I can read.
  4. 5 points
    base

    An Idea to Think About.

    Why bother trying to legislate or control the transfers? If parents/students are willing to go through the effort of transferring to another school for the benefit of academics, sports, or extracurricular activities - I say let them go. Why hold kids out for a year - they are 14-19 years old and only have 4 years to play sports. Let them play. The small schools will be okay. Key points for a small school coach is to cultivate a good youth club - that will be your feeder in future years. And, make the program something that parents and kids want to be a part of. It's the same as a workplace - if all you have is the job with no sense of belonging (via close-knit workgroup/friends, team-building, company mission that you believe in, etc). If you have those in place, then I believe the local kids will want to be a part of it. Sure, a few studs might move to another school - let them go and pursue what they are looking for... I also think there will be those students that transfer AWAY from the big schools to smaller schools. I see it happen currently with larger team sports. Where the student may not be a starter for the large HS team, they may be viewed as a superstar on the smaller HS team. Could happen (maybe already does?) with wrestling too. If you're at Brownsburg, for instance, it's going to be very tough to crack the varsity lineup. A wrestler transferring to a smaller local school could be their varsity star and get an opportunity that they couldn't otherwise get.
  5. 5 points
    doctorWrestling

    An Idea to Think About.

    - I really hope you are not a parent, surely you can't be. Actually, hopefully not a coach either.
  6. 4 points
    Y2CJ41

    An Idea to Think About.

    I fully understand parents believing kids will have more success at a different school. Personally, we moved three years ago and we wanted to be in a certain school district and paid a price in increased housing costs and a double mortgage to do so. This was of course when my daughter was going into kindergarten and athletics were not in the picture. The rampant transferring over the past few years is getting to the point where we actually have a Google doc to keep up with them for rankings purposes. It doesn't seem to be much better and only getting worse. The trend is not good for the future of the sport. It won't take much for a couple schools to drop the sport then a snowball affect will happen and instead of finding a coach schools just cancel the program. When this happens it will be quick and sudden with very little time to react. As with college programs wrestling people need to be PRO-active instead of RE-active in this. The IHSAA's hands are tied as no matter the rule there will be people that find a way around it. In Michigan and Ohio they are starting to crack down on kids transferring, however when you do that legitimate transfers get dinged at the same time. This is not a classed issue, but lets be real no one is transferring from a 6A school to a 2A school. The perceived or real advantages or bigger schools will always win out. There is no easy or good solution other than encouraging parents to keep their kids at the school they started at. More than anything peer pressure will do more than any IHSAA regulation.
  7. 4 points
    We are extremely excited to welcome Vinny Corsaro and Brandon Wright to our Center Grove Wrestling Staff. The list of accomplishments for these two are exceedingly long. Vinny Corsaro -4x IHSAA State Place winner -3x IHSAA State Runner-Up -FloNational All-American -Junior National Freestyle All-American (Fargo) -Big Ten Wrestler (Rutgers, Indiana University) Brandon Wright -4x IHSAA State Place winner -2x IHSAA State Runner-Up -2x IHSAA STATE CHAMPION -Super 32 Runner-Up -Cadet National Freestyle CHAMPION (Fargo) -2x NAIA NATIONAL CHAMPION -2017 U.S. Open Runner-Up -2018 U.S. Finalist -Currently Ranked #4 in the U.S.A. at 61kg/134lbs. We are fortunate to add these two phenomenal individuals to our staff!!
  8. 4 points
    poppem215

    Moves and Transfers

    In fairness we Michiganders add an S to everything. Meijers Krogers States etc
  9. 3 points
    MD92

    Pre season State Champ Predictions?

    Blake is tremendous and I can see a state title or 2 in his future, but that is a tough Mt. Rushmore to get on with the likes of Nick and Joe Lee, Maurer, Coughlin, etc. etc.
  10. 3 points
    indianmorg

    An Idea to Think About.

    This is a great solution, Lake Central does this right now with our football program. 3 middle schools feed into the high school and for some reason 2 out of the 3 the past couple of years could not get more than 15 kids out (crazy I know, 4000 kids in the middle schools, cant get 30 at one middle school to play ball). So they combined them into one team, where they practice and play together and now they have a solid football team. Gets all the kids that want to play an opportunity for minimal travel costs (schools are 15 minutes away and corp buses them). Win win for all involved
  11. 3 points
    Mattyb

    An Idea to Think About.

    Great point! We have had multiple kids leave Avon to go to smaller schools. Those kids may have never cracked our line up here, but went on to be multi-year starters at other nearby smaller schools. They played football too. They would have never seen the field here. So.. yes it does happen both ways. We just don't talk about those guys because they are not the top talent.
  12. 3 points
    106 - Cottey 113 - Moran 120 - Curtis 126 - Watts 132 - Asa 138 - Gimson 145 - Matt Lee 152 - Schoenegge 160 - South 170 - Carson 182 - Brewer 195 - Allred 220 - Cornwell 285 - Pokorney
  13. 3 points
    This hurts my head. Everytime I read your post I read them in a Yosemite sam voice. I just hope we either see a Garcia/Mendez, Curtis/Mendez.
  14. 3 points
    Picture Pistol firing his 2 Smith & Wessons in the air ... smoke of time is there . Then Pistol sees two Senior wrestlers holding up 3 fingers, four other Seniors others holding up 2 fingers . Pistol sees two other Seniors Winning their first Titles from a Black & Gold Team up there. Sees a bigger Junior winning his 1st title . Wait a minute... is that Blue & White at a lighter weight. Smoke getting clear as Pistol sees two Orange & Brown singlet . That leaves a few more , one more Pistol sees it .... Pistol sees someone wearing Red & Blue singlet at a heavier weight . Smoke is gone ... bummer. Guess Pistol going to fire more ammunition to see & tell the future next time. You can also take that to the Bank in February. Wooooo..... Bang ! Bang ! Bang ! Pistol Pete shot Miss Cleo while telling this fortune. 🤠
  15. 3 points
    Jdhomes

    An Idea to Think About.

    I’m going to give my take coming from a small school, being a coach and a father. When I made my decision to stay in a school that was small, academically fantastic and no wrestling program. I knew that the reason I was there and move my kids to Indiana from Chicago was for the academic and the environment. It wasn’t always easy. Sometimes I had my doubts. But I always felt that wrestling was a tool to use for my kids to get a better education. And I believe I made the right choice. Having my oldest be able to attend a very prestigious college and wrestle d1. My second going on same path. And having 7 years of wrestling program existence we produced three college wrestlers, the fourth one did not want to wrestle in college. I am going to tell you that going to a big school or a top program is not always best. If your eyes are set on what they do in wrestling only, well in my opinion that is what hurts the sport. There’s a lot more than wrestling, like academics, growing up with your classmates, that bond and memories that can’t be build by just a wrestler. This are the things that make men that make a difference in life. Not always about winning. Unfortunately a lot of parents are so focus on winning that some of this kids don’t wrestle in high school bc they are burn out. And so some high school wrestlers that were considered “studs” “hammers” did not achieve what was “ what they were supposed to” don’t end up wrestling in college!!! I have seen it over and over. And I also seen wrestlers that were not state champions do well in college and sometimes even get better scholarships than some state champions. (Academics) you can be great anywhere you go, that honestly on the individual and what they are willing to sacrifice for their goal. There is something special about knowing your wrestlers for 12 years and seeing them still love the sport and become productive men in society.
  16. 3 points
    GrecoCoach

    2018 Head Coaching Changes

    Fishers High School Old Coach - Jason Cook New Coach - Frank Ingalls (School board approved tonight) Congrats Coach Ingalls!
  17. 3 points
    Mattyb

    An Idea to Think About.

    So what would you suggest these people do? I was at a meet last year. The school has had multiple state champs in the past. They now have a new staff. Multiple parents from that school told me about how their kids were not getting what they need to get to the next level (these kids have the ability to wrestle in college). So... I spent extra time just watching to see what the fuss was all about. I watched as the kids corner each other many times that day. One of their state quailifier level kids got a good match against another good kid. 5 seconds into the match the head coach starts to yell “throw him in a headlock”!!!! True story!! One of the best kids from this team has left the school. The school that he left for is rated much higher academically also. Again... with alll of this said... are you to suggest that the parents just stick with the course that they were on???? I say no way!!! No way this family sacrifices opportunity for their child to get better coaching, partners, and education just because some other people think that a handful of kids moving is going to “kill” high school wrestling. I also spoke with the dad of a state champ today. His son moved schools right before high school. He is of the opinion that the state championship may not have happened and his colleges offers may not have been there, if they stayed put. Can we blame this family for “killing” high school wrestling??? I really don’t think that these kids moving to get what they need will kill high school wrestling. I typically don’t post an opinion on a topic like this without posting a suggestion to help (try not to complain without helping). With that said, we have a great coaches accociation within our state. The resources that our high school coaches have are abundant. With this said, if a coach or coaches have an issue with kids leaving certain failing programs, then they need to OFFER THEM HELP. I really think that coaches helping coaches could have a much larger impact on our sport then a kid or two leaving a handful of programs for greener pastures. Btw... just heard that Center Grove signed two great coaches. Saw a couple for sale signs in wrestling famliys yards today!!! I kid I kid!
  18. 3 points
    Ed Pendoski

    An Idea to Think About.

    What really got me thinking about the numbers situation was the shortage of refs and what the NWCA is talking about when they promote the sport. We are about 15 years away from the worst of what title IX proportionality rule did to college wrestling. The fact that we're 15 years away means that we have the smallest pool of college wrestlers that would be added to the pool of refs (and coaches). Looking at the numbers of small schools and then add the number of small school 'potential state qualifier' kid that transfers to a big successful school. Made me wonder....in a shrinking number of potential coaches. Is it going to affect the ability to get a good coach at a small/weaker school. Same thing for getting the athlete to come to the wrestling room. A great example would be Sliga's workout partner at Fishers HS. If Sliga left Fishers, there's a much lesser chance of Seth Riley being on the wrestling team in HS. Let alone qualifying for the state tourney as a senior. If every time Sheridan HS had a wrestler that had potential, and he transfered to Carmel...eventually Sheridan is going to stop having a wrestling team if they can't get kids out or get a coach to coach them. One schools start dropping wrestling, there will be many more to follow, in my opinion. Hence the gymnsatics analogy.
  19. 3 points
    Mattyb

    An Idea to Think About.

    This is how I see it.... I would say 90 percent of the high profile transfers are from families that wrestle year round. They spend money on training, travel, gear, camps, etc.... most of these families had no clue that they would become “wrestling” families when they first got married, and moved into the town that they grew up in or that was near their place of employment. With this said, as these kids are getting to high school age (or begin high school) parents are seeing that their wrestler may have an opportunity to get better training, better exposure, better partners, better coaches (that get paid more!), and for the most part a better education at other schools. Not to mention they are moving to communities where their friends, that they have been traveling the nation with for years, reside. These people are trying to that which is best for the family as a whole. The other 10 percent seem to be job transfers or just kids that got in trouble. No way you can knock anyone for trying to do what’s best for their kids. As far as small schools doing away with wrestling... if by losing 1 or 2 wrestlers the schools program folds, it most likely would have folded anyway. And... do we expect our top wrestlers to be satisfied with any program on the verge of being dissolved (just because they started life there). It is what it is.... I see no issues with what is happening. And yes.... we have lost great talent too (at Avon). We lost two time Florida state champ Trey Lane, Zionsville studs (the williamsons), and others. Just families doing what they thought was best for their kids. No hard feelings and we just moved on. Families doing what they think is right or best for their kids is just a part of life and sports.
  20. 3 points
    nkraus

    An Idea to Think About.

    Team State in classes is fine. I like our individual state finals.
  21. 2 points
    Y2CJ41

    An Idea to Think About.

    There is an interesting situation occurring up north here in Hamilton. It's a small town without a stop light and basically lake town. The town is already small, but they are just close enough to a couple bigger schools that have numerous more opportunities whether it be academically to athletics to anything else compared to what they have at home. The open enrollment system has basically dropped their enrollment in half to where they have less than 300 kids from K-12. The school is basically on life support right now as they are losing funding and keeping it open is difficult financially. This wasn't something that happened over night, but it started when parents saw better opportunities for their kids at neighboring schools. It snow balled into more and more that did this until we are at this point where the school has less than 20 kids in their senior class. I'm sure the parents at least semi-care about Hamilton schools, but it's hard to not see that their kids could have a better high school experience elsewhere. On the wrestling side this is very much what could happen. The issue we will see is the trickle down affect of even regional or semi-state level kids that want to get better that start moving maybe not to a top 10 program, but top 20-30 programs that could use that level of kid to propel them into higher ranks. As Maligned said, we are a very mobile society these days and this issue is just the beginning which could lead to some affects we do not want to happen to the sport.
  22. 2 points
    Clint Gard

    An Idea to Think About.

    Thanks for the clarification Riley! I don't think Ed violated anything. Just struck me funny and brings to light an issue that I know is out there with others.
  23. 2 points
    GrecoCoach

    An Idea to Think About.

    It’s spelled Harreld. Don’t want you to get thrown on your head. 🤣
  24. 2 points
    Bigyusm

    An Idea to Think About.

    As a Small School with a 7 year old program - We are planning for 8 years down the road - and one thing constantly comes up is will the kids stay here or go to another school (bigger). As a parent we moved to Wheeler between my sons 8th & 9th grade year - I can say he probably would not have been a varsity wrestler at Valpo his freshmen year and his growth by wrestling against varsity competition tremendously helped him. The time Coaches have spent with him at Wheeler because we had 9 kids , 13 kids and 18 kids the last 3 years has been unbelievable. That small school environment made him so much better in my opinion as he wasn’t just a number. I think for some kids , like my son who was new to wrestling and played 3 sports, the small school benefits them tremendously. Too many parents think going to the bigger school will develop their kid into a hammer. Sometimes they develop into the nail - I can see where this scenario of kids leaving could really hurt a program like ours. Fortunately for us we have dedicated coaches - I understand why kids stay and I understand why kids leave - I prefer they stay and grow , but I have a 6th grader still so I’m just thinking about training partners for him in 3 years.
  25. 2 points
    Y2CJ41

    Moves and Transfers

    We were talking about GOOD wrestlers 😀
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